The announced reward of £3.2 million divided between the landowner and the detectorist is too small according to some detectorists and ten times too small according to one contributor to one of the most prominent detectorists’ forums!
“They should have got at least 10 times that. Why should anyone declare anything now is beyond me. … They are having a laugh.” How much more of a realistic figure if it had of been found by archiologists? (sic) These items should have been put up for an open auction of collectors/museums with an interest in them and the true value figure found. If the museums or the Crown couldnt (sic) match that figure, then they would be passed off to the highest bidder. Only until a usefull (sic) and correct valuation scheme comes along will we see a decent valuation being put on these items. Until then you will have to go on accepting stupid valuations being put on our treasures.”
No understanding, evidently, of the fact these treasures are OURS as a society, ALREADY vest in the Crown and HAD to be reported by law. No inkling that the reward is just that, a reward (or maybe, a ransom, since the system is openly based on the fact that without payment some detectorists would simply not report items and sell them illegally).
So £3.2 million is just not enough reward it seems in the thuggish intellectual cul de sac that a portion of detectorists inhabit. We can only be glad this hoard wasn’t found by individuals of that ilk. Or other hoards. Or have they? How many other national treasures have fallen into the hands of detectorists holding the ignorant and self-serving view that what they find is theirs to profit by without limit?
Who knows? But if a proportion of them think the rewards are far too low the rewards are clearly not working in their cases. So here’s a controversial idea (except that it isn’t) :
A stiff prison sentence for failure to declare Treasure. But a reward, set at a maximum figure of £10,000 for those who manage to act like the rest of us and obey the law without complaint, merely because it IS the law, and don’t require encouragement, persuasion, praise, flattery or million pound bribes or ransom payments. Let us pay detectorists the complement of treating them like the rest of society, not as a group that includes an invisible but existing proportion of ferral crooks that need vast payments to ensure they don’t break the law and murder our cultural heritage. What other sector of British government policy copes with public damage caused by moral imbecilism by PAYING people to act properly? And what country in all the world but Britain, dresses such a policy up as sensible? No, we suggest Britain saves those millions of pounds and spends them on childrens’ hospices.
Watch out for the stampede of “in it purely for love of history” detectorists supporting our call. All ten thousand of them we would presume.
Or maybe not.
23 comments
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27/11/2009 at 17:38
The Keeper
“So here’s a controversial idea (except that it isn’t) :
“A stiff prison sentence for failure to declare Treasure. But a reward, set at a maximum figure of £10,000 for those who manage to act like the rest of us and obey the law without complaint, merely because it IS the law, and don’t require encouragement, persuasion, praise, flattery or million pound bribes or ransom payments.”
Brilliant! Let’s see what PAS and the legal profession have to say about that – assuming they’ve got the brains, let alone to brawn, to tackle the issue).
As for the wittering whining of the detectorist quoted above – time he took a course in OUR history and OUR heritage and stopped acting like a Judas with a hole in his pieces-of-silver pouch.
27/11/2009 at 18:51
heritageaction
“Brilliant! Let’s see what PAS and the legal profession have to say about that”
Well, we know what they think about it. Everyone that isn’t a detectorist thinks it is good sense. Ask them (in private).
The trouble is, officialdom often says so in private but is reluctant to say so within the hearing of detectorists for fear of another “backlash”. This is why we see the true nature of treasure payments as a ransom not a reward.
29/12/2009 at 14:28
lee jones
i agree to the fact that yes hoards of substancial finds like terrys should
be reported but the choice of the way that is sold should be down to the
finder in one respect,if they dont agree with the valuation then we or they
should have a right to independant valuations or open auctions as for the
prison terms i agree its our countrys history that could be stolen,or sold on to somebody on the black market somewhere else in the world, i dont think there should be a maximum figure laid out on the table not if
the find is worth 10 15 or 20 million pounds let the independant valuers
do their jobs
thankyou
29/12/2009 at 15:46
heritageaction
On the other hand, since it is “our country’s history” and you only do it for “the love of history, not money” how about you are given a reward of little or nothing and sent to prison for five years if you didn’t report it?
Or would you and your friends break the law without a huge reward?
01/01/2010 at 03:08
senua
Sorry but I thought that you lot loved archeology. If you did you’d hand over your finds no matter what to a local museum for all to appreciate. Not sell them on ebay for a quick buck. As for the hoard, asking for that amount of money is greedy. Sorry but there are people living on the streets and starving and they want 32 million. Isn’t 3.2 million enough.
Thing is the archeological record is not a limitless resource you can plunder forever. It’s going to run out sooner or latter.
Every site is unique and add to our knowlede of the past. You are denying the people of this country their past. If you are truely interested in the past you would be helping preserve it not destroying it. Yet you all seem more interested in money.
16/08/2010 at 23:35
Clive
Thanks to metal detectorists, thousands of items have been saved and are now in the public domain. So much stuff would by now have been under concrete, plenty more would be still in the ground and continuing to deteriorate. OK human nature means that lots of items have disappeared but there’s no doubt that our knowledge has been greatly increased through the hobby efforts of detectorists. Why are you failing to realise this, is it just jealousy, you seem to have a dog in the manger attitude.
17/08/2010 at 13:50
heritageaction
“OK human nature means that lots of items have disappeared but there’s no doubt that our knowledge has been greatly increased through the hobby efforts of detectorists.”
Supermen. Somewhere between 60% and 90% of found archaeological objects “have disappeared”; dug up and not reported. Do the sums.
09/12/2010 at 14:21
ken streete
I found a unique piece of gold adornment from Viking times using expensive German technology. It would not have been found by any other currently available top-end piece of ground radar or similar.
It was rightly reported to my local Museum. They were astounded at the place of the find , its depth, and its concealement. ( It was inside a hollowed out small rock!)–inside a cleft in a bigger rock–20 feet above the ground level.
I got a small reward–under £3,000–the Museum got a treasure . All of posterity can view it safely.
WHAT DID I DO WRONG??
If your way was accepted by the Government ( which it NEVER will be) that piece would be forever out of the sight of ANY future generations.
I think a lot of people on here have hidden agendas.
I never publicise my finds.
I do however know archaeologists whose house are chokka with –shall we say- would be “more at home” and a lot safer in a Museum.
I rest my case.M’Lud!
09/12/2010 at 14:43
Pat
And you took nearly £3,000 from a museum because……. ??
And you don’t act in accordance with all 10 of the EMDA Pledges http://www.ethicaldetecting.org.uk/ because…… ??
And you tell us you know people with houses full of stolen goods but you haven’t told the police because…… ??
Three clear and concise answers, rather than further tangents, would now be appropriate – else you’ll find that was your last posting.
04/11/2011 at 13:28
Tomas Baxter
WOW, iv just stumbled upon this site and i am shocked by the narrow mindedness of some of the comments. i am a metal detectorest and i spend a vast amount of time + money on it, both searching and researching the stuff i find 90% of witch is rubbish.
ALL my finds are recorded to the best of my and the flo’s ability.
i work bloody hard to get the finds and i don’t think most of the ppl complaining wold have the physical or mental endurance to do the same more over im sure you would not dedicate your time and resources to it.
there is an obvious way to solve this problem if you dont like the ppl who are detecting go and get yourself a top end detector that will cost you a good £1500 dedicate 6 months of your life learning how to use it and doing research, then spend a week or so driving round trying to find who owns the farm and getting them to let you wonder about on it digging random holes, then YOU can find those amazing treasures that you see in the papers.
oh and just for the record i have worked with archeologists on digs voluntarily for FREE wile they are getting paid.
i will never sell my collection on fleabay
04/11/2011 at 17:16
Simon K
What a heritage hero you sound!
I take it you keep to all these rules do you – http://www.ethicaldetecting.org.uk/
????
If not, perhaps you’d care to explain very precisely in each instance why not, rather than boasting how hard you work at what you do….
28/11/2011 at 15:25
largebear
Yes Simon K
There are diligent detectorists like myself who follow the rules and the regulations. Not only here, but in New Zealand and Australia where I hunt for natural ingots in the bush.
I am retired, I spend a lot on my equipment an my finds have paid for better and better equipment over the years. I now have over £60,000 GBPounds worth of German kit which far outstrips much of the stuff on general sale in the UK –where incidentally some of the technology is being blocked by architecturally supported “interests”.
I have assisted on Official Archaeological digs locally and in Scotland and my kit has astounded Gummint funded archaeo’s who were confunded that I could find a gold brooch 12 feet down–weighing under half-an-ounce!!
Their subtlest kit was a JCB driven by a 20 stone Irishman who was a true artist with a JCB—he could do anything with it–better than a student with a brush and pan!!
BTW Why is Prince Charles now trying to enforce metal detectorists in Cornwall to pay £60.00 for a permit to hunt Cornish beaches??
Greed, probably…but then he always has a hidden agenda, so is doubtless being leant on by the sandal wearing yoghurt knitters to chop another corner off the metal detectorists range of activities.
His Mother kindly allows detectorists to search freely on Crown Estates foreshores as long as they carry the current free permit!!
Does Mummy know, Charlie Boy?…and how do you intend to police it??
Lets all wait and watch while the beardey ones with influence seek to furter their own ends at the expense of freedom and for the accumulation of money.
…and I do know an archaeologist who has an item that should be in a Museum.
It is a small cannon which was uncovered and brought up from a Spanish Armada wreck off Portnoo in Donegal in the Irish Republic and whisked away from draconian Irish eyes for such acts ,to the ” Safety” of the UK….Yeah right!!!
Show me an archaeologist who is over keen and voluble to the point of boredom on detectorists and I will show you someone whose understair cupboard holds more than just gas and electric meters…
Do you want an address???
Wind your neck in, sunshine!!
28/11/2011 at 15:47
Simon K
“Do you want an address???”
Of course!
You aren’t the first, you’re the Nth detectorist that has said lots of archaeologists are crooks ergo detectorists are fine. Trouble is, without fail, they don’t name them when challenged – as won’t you.
08/12/2011 at 16:50
ken streete
Easy to hide behind such a sweeping statement as that young SimonK!!
I am simply waiting for the said archaeo to come out in Public and be as outspoken about Detectorists–as he is prone to do in private–and the minute he shoots his mouth off against us, then I will ensure that a relevant National TV Producer is in the right place at the right time and he will be recorded for posterity to be the 2-faced motor-mouth that he is!! Doubtless there is more than a Spanish Galleon deck cannon in his cellar….
Watch closely the “….and Finally..” section on ITV news one night…in fact I will post on here when it will happen–date up to him–so we can all enjoy seeing a 2 faced idiot getting banged up for all the best reasons!!
08/12/2011 at 16:55
ken streete
I have read your ETHICAL CODE and see it has one fatal flaw.
You state you will hand 100% of found objects to the landowner. Fine…in theory…
What guarantee do you have that so doing guarantees the fact that such goods will not be flogged on FleaBay or fenced through a jeweller or introduced into an auction overseas..???
I admire your ethical principles. Its the practice that confuses me —just a tad!!
08/12/2011 at 18:59
Pat
So they’ve suddenly gone from plural to singular. And you’ve moved from definitely to “doubtless”. And instead of reporting him as is your duty you’re waiting till he criticises detectorists. Sounds like bluster to me.
08/12/2011 at 19:08
heritageaction
No guarantees – just a feeling that landowners are mostly a lot less likely to EBay, flog or fence stuff than detectorists.
10/12/2011 at 18:53
ken streete
No it ain’t bluster!! Far from it!!
When he sticks his head over the parapet, and lets fly against Detectorists in a negative sense–or seeks, as he well maydo, to try the legislative route to compromise our activities–then he is going to get his collar felt!
I would die happy if I saw he got slung on the spoil heap–he has serious grudges and issues to address–and he knows who he is–and he knows I know who he is!! Period!!
10/12/2011 at 19:31
Pat
So you know someone who has broken the law but you won’t report them unless they criticise detectorists? Which is failure to report a crime AND blackmail.
So it’s probably best you stop now as if was true you’d be incriminating yourself and if it isn’t you’re embarrassing yourself!
22/12/2011 at 11:42
ken streete
Exactly Pat….We wl report him when he shows his true colours. Pointless bit of news filler for the botom of Page 9 of the Grauniad or some other min imal circulation cat litter tray filler–if he was reported and nicked by the Rozzers.
How eminently more embarrassing for him, AND HIS KINDRED SPIRITS, who would doubtless come to his aid,verbally, to then find that the wonder-oy turns out to be an all-hat-and-no-cattle vindictive intellectual with a personal gripe against metal detectorists–and is actually in possession of stolen goods!!
NOW THAT IS DAMAGING NEWS–anything else is page-filler.
How strange that he has been VERY QUIET since this corres[pondence started on this particular thread…..maybe he can read also, and is a member on here. No need for laxative in that household then!!
Happy Hunting over Christmas. I will!! I am off on a farm near an old abbey that was knocked aboiut a bit by Cromwell!! Bound to be “stuff” thereaboiuts…and weather looks good too!!
22/12/2011 at 14:41
Pat
Enough delay. If your next message doesn’t name the alleged criminal that you’re illegally shielding it won’t get published.
On the assumption it won’t, goodbye.
24/02/2012 at 14:53
ken streete
Pat Get a life!! If the only way you can avoid discussion is to threaten users with barring if they don’t follow your line then I wash my hands of you and your kind.
People like you with their prissy attitudes are the continuing reason why the great finds are made by detectorists and disclosed to the authorities, and why your kind are extra selective in what you keep personally and what you pass to the authorities
.Cast our the moat in tjhine own eye before…etc etc..
Both of our tribes have their faults, but I will continue to detect until I die and I hope now to use some very new equipment in the borders this Spring to seek Rievers Hoards–I have found one small one already in the ruins of a croft burnt out by the English Planters, and later in the year I am in Cyprus for a month searching the hideouts of Georg Grivas the former EOKA leader in the company of some Greeks.
As for England, I will continue to search as I wish where I have permission, and the idea of handing all to the landowner to dispose of as he/she sees fit is to give an explicit licence for goods to be sold overseas or to the many UK dealers who handle such stuff. Most will doubtless end up on FleaBay or in foreign dealers hands.
24/02/2012 at 15:20
Pat
“and why your kind are extra selective in what you keep personally and what you pass to the authorities”
Why on earth would you feel justified in suggesting anybody in Heritage Action ever failed to declare anything, ever? I think your appreciation of how tens of millions of decent, educated, moral people behave has been obscured by the behaviour of some of your morally and intellectually challenged pals.
“the idea of handing all to the landowner to dispose of as he/she sees fit is to give an explicit licence for goods to be sold overseas or to the many UK dealers who handle such stuff.”
More outrageous accusations. The implication being that the average landowner is morally and intellectually and educationally inferior to the average metal detectorist and can’t be trusted with his OWN property so having a random oik take it away is the best thing for it. Ridiculous. Go away.