We were fascinated to read this, right at the end of the Wiltshire Archaeology and Natural History Society’s plea for vehicles to be banned from the byways around Stonehenge,
“The Society encourages, for the same reasons and as a matter of parity, the Council to propose as soon as possible the permanent prohibition too of motorised vehicles on Byways in the Avebury part of the Stonehenge and Avebury World Heritage Site.”
We entirely concur. The law relating to access is complex and many tracks in Britain ought to be shared by many interests but the environs of both Stonehenge and Avebury are very special and there is surely no room for this or this!
We noticed this gaggle of 4x4s recently, enjoying a visit to the West Kennet Avenue. It might well be that they had just come from the Ridgeway, where they are allowed during the Summer months. They were from Dudley way, where we happen to know there are a very large number of disused railway tracks and endless nearby picturesque “Green Lanes”. It seems to us there is plenty of room for 4x4s beyond the Stonehenge-Avebury World Heritage Site and it would be much better to leave the Ridgeway to the walkers, cyclists and the skylarks…
4x4s lined up along the West Kennet Avenue at Avebury
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14/02/2010 at 12:21
Pink Zoe Realm
We as Owners of a Discovery, fully agree with the above, for the People above are as bad, Nay WORSE than the Chelsea Tractor Brigade, for this lot are actively SMASHING up Britains Country side & where these 4X4 club go there is a link with Animals giving birth Prematurely which has been mention on Country File, so they do know they are doing it, & after they have been down Paths & stuff some times 20 or 30 at a time the paths are impassable for Months, I know this from Living in Wales.
22/03/2010 at 18:49
Mr Smith
I can see 4 4×4 vehicles parked bringing trade, their owners I imagine experiencing enjoyment as visitors to your part of the world, the wildlife flora and fauna ancient burial sites and places of astronomical observations. Purchase of; fuel, food, ale, tea. I can see no evidence to support claims of damage to world heritage site. There are other cars parked at the same location, I imagine all the vehicle owners including 4×4 are on foot enjoying the world heritage site.
In the main 99.9% of 4×4 users are responsible owners and respecters of the countryside, so please don’t confuse this harmless scene of parked 4×4 supports your claim of damage. I am from Dudley myself, the heart of the ‘Black Country’, I know of no ‘green lanes’ or access to disused railway. I recently travelled on a steam engine at the seven-valley railway both sides of the track lambs are happily being born in close proximately of the iron horse and all its paraphernalia.
22/03/2010 at 20:00
heritageaction
“I can see no evidence to support claims of damage to world heritage site.”
Well, have you been along the Ridgeway? Europe’s oldest road is not the best surface for 4x4s.
Apart from that one small point I’m sure the people of Avebury welcome visitors from Dudley. (They do me, and I have a DY postcode.)
22/03/2010 at 21:52
Mr Smith
“I can see no evidence to support claims of damage to world heritage site.”
Well, have you been along the Ridgeway? Europe’s oldest road is not the best surface for 4×4s.
Apart from that one small point I’m sure the people of Avebury welcome visitors from Dudley. (They do me, and I have a DY postcode.)
Please show hard facts, photo or video evidence of claimed damage caused by 4×4 on Ridgeway.
Please state os map ref numbers I want to check for myself. Thank you
22/03/2010 at 22:38
heritageaction
“Please show hard facts, photo or video evidence of claimed damage caused by 4×4 on Ridgeway.
Please state os map ref numbers I want to check for myself. Thank you”
I suggest you approach the Friends of the Ridgeway for the evidence, they have lots. Or just stand on the Ridgeway as a 4×4 goes by, it couldn’t be clearer. They’re heavy you see. And the track is delicate. And six thousand years old. Can you possibly think there is some doubt about whether damage is caused?
BTW, I think you’re making a big tactical error. Fighting for your rights on the Ridgeway (and the Stonehenge tracks) is fighting to do something unpopular on some of the most precious and best loved bits of Britain. It puts your hobby in a poor light.
22/03/2010 at 22:48
Mary Barker
I doubt if you can support the statement that 99.9% of 4×4 users are responsible owners and respecters of the countryside. If you can please supply the relevant stats. It so happens that I happened to be walking down from the top of Waden Hill when the owners of the 4x4s in question here were walking up. They were crop circle hunters. Half way up three of them climbed over a barbed wire fence to get into an adjacent field for a better view of a crop circle.
Responsible? I don’t think so.
22/03/2010 at 22:49
Mr Smith
4×4 is not my hobby. I am not fighting for rights on the Ridgeway or Stonehenge tracks just curious as to why you are manipulating the truth.
22/03/2010 at 22:56
Mr Smith
“They were crop circle hunters. Half way up three of them climbed over a barbed wire fence to get into an adjacent field for a better view of a crop circle.”
So they were crop circle hunters! Like int the tv advert ‘should have gone to spec savers’..so maybe you should ban crop circle hunting also?
22/03/2010 at 23:08
heritageaction
“curious as to why you are manipulating the truth”
It’s hard to manipulate the simple proposition that playing adolescent brum brum along a delicate track is damaging and crass! But thanks for your input!
09/04/2010 at 10:45
Roy Goutte
I’ve just picked up on this debate and although not a 4×4 motorist myself I would think the ‘damage’ done by them is replicated many times over and over by the more everyday cars that visit such places as Avebury and Stonehenge and farmers that need access off the Ridgeway. I think a point that has been missed is that just about everyone that visits such places as Avebury or Stonehenge are just as interested in the subject matter as each other and don’t purposely go out with the intention of causing damage. The photo of the 4×4′s lined up on the verge at the WKA is absolutely no different to all the other days when it is overloaded with normal cars so was a pointess exercise. While you have a valid point in parts maybe it is something we should ALL address when visiting sites and not just single out drivers of certain vehicles. Also, if the powers that be were more observant in realising that the WKA attracts a great deal of attention, then maybe they would consider providing a suitable parking area for vehicles as not everyone who visits Avebury is able to walk from the main car park down the Avenue. That apart good luck with the Journal and keep up the good work.
09/04/2010 at 11:16
heritageaction
Hi Roy,
Our photograph was what we had and wasn’t an implied criticism of people bringing 4x4s to Avebury.
Our sole point was that they should be kept off tracks where they can and do cause damage.
The Ridgeway isn’t just any old track, it is the spine of the history of Britain, for those that know. Driving a 4×4 along it shrieking with delight as you splash through flooded potholes extends the meaning of inappropriate into new levels!
Many thanks for your kind words.
09/04/2010 at 11:52
Roy Goutte
“The Ridgeway isn’t just any old track, it is the spine of the history of Britain, for those that know”.
Absolutely 100% correct and well worth reminding people of the importance of this ancient major route and the significant part it played in bringing people to Avebury and in particular to the Sanctuary on Overton Hill.
12/04/2010 at 20:50
Littlestone
“I’ve just picked up on this debate and although not a 4×4 motorist myself I would think the ‘damage’ done by them is replicated many times over and over by the more everyday cars that visit such places as Avebury and Stonehenge and farmers that need access off the Ridgeway.”
I’m not quite with you Roy; this feature (if I’ve read it right) refers to the damage 4x4s inflict on the Ridgeway and I can’t quite make out the connection between that and the vehicles you claim, “… replicated many times over and over by the more everyday cars that visit such places as Avebury and Stonehenge and farmers that need access off the Ridgeway.”
The ‘everyday cars that visit such places as Avebury and Stonehenge’ (at least those that I’ve seen) are mostly confined to the designated car parks there while (to my knowledge) agricultural access to and from the Ridgeway is very limited indeed. I’d be interested in further clarification re: your statement that, “… the ‘damage’ done by them is replicated many times over and over by the more everyday cars that visit such places as Avebury and Stonehenge and farmers that need access off the Ridgeway.” What exactly is this damage you claim is being done many times over by ‘the more everyday cars’ that visit Avebury and Stonehenge?
12/04/2010 at 22:09
Roy Goutte
Hi Littlestone,
My initial post was really meant to be aimed at the photo showing the 4×4′s lined up on the grass verge alongside the field where the West Kennet Avenue stands. During my research visits to Avebury I always as a matter of course drive up the West Kennet to Avebury road and almost without exception there are ‘normal’ cars, as well as 4×4′s parked there cutting up the verge. If you visit in the height of the holiday season the vehicles don’t just stay within the confines of the almost now ‘recognised paking area’, but well up the road verge leading to Avebury. Most of the vehicles seen parked there are standard cars compared to 4×4′s hence my comment regarding the damage being replicated over and over by everyday cars compared to 4×4′s.
My first port of call when I visit Avebury is always the Sanctuary early in the morning so that if I am lucky I will see the mist rising in the valley between it and Silbury Hill. I always park off road at the beginning of the Ridgeway which has been an accepted area to park for some years. But you can be sure that I’m not alone, because again, at certain times of the year, people are camping further up the path and have their vehicles parked with them so they are most certainly not in the designated parking areas as you suggest. When I speak of Avebury I certainly don’t mean just Avebury itself but the whole Complex where visitors park all over the place if they can get away with it. I’ve been down to the Longstones (Adam & Eve) and parked sensibly next to the wall by the farm/equestrian area and have seen people actually parked in the field where the stones are cutting up the turf. They also park up just outside the Great Circle at the juction where the aforementioned West Kennet/Avebury road meets the road from from Beckhampton/Devises at the point where the nearby first stone in the West Kennet Avenue is positioned. I’ve seen half a dozen stacked up there, again not in a designated parking area. When I lived in Hampshire I was almost constantly visiting Stonehenge and always saw groups of vehicles parked up the various trackways in the vicinity of the circle, again well away from designated parking areas. While most visitors do park sensibly there are an awful lot that don’t!!
12/04/2010 at 23:24
Littlestone
“My initial post was really meant to be aimed at the photo showing the 4×4’s lined up on the grass verge alongside the field where the West Kennet Avenue stands.”
Yes, but in your previous comment you wrote that, “I would think the ‘damage’ done by them [4x4s] is replicated many times over and over by the more everyday cars that visit such places as Avebury and Stonehenge and farmers that need access off the Ridgeway.”
Replicated ‘many times over and over by the more everyday cars that visit such places as Avebury and Stonehenge and farmers that need access off the Ridgeway.’ That’s a rather serious statement, are you really sure that the ‘damage’ done by 4x4s is ‘replicated many times over and over by the more everyday cars that visit such places as Avebury and Stonehenge and farmers that need access off the Ridgeway’?
I’ve been visiting Avebury since the early 60s, and while the view of Silbury from the Sanctuary is good it’s not the only one (IMHO there’s a better view of Silbury from the road that leads down to EKLB). As for people parking all over the place, in actual fact there are very few places where one can park without soon being moved on. The Sanctuary/Ridgeway and WKLB laybys are two, the Silbury layby is another, you might be lucky to get away with parking at the top of the WK Avenue for a bit but not for very long. There are places in Avebury Trusloe where you can park without too much trouble, and a couple of places around Winterbourne Bassett and Monkton – parking there however would not constitute, in my opinion, anything near the ‘damage done by [4x4s] replicated many times over and over by the more everyday cars that visit such places as Avebury and Stonehenge and farmers that need access off the Ridgeway.’
I’m sure you will agree that in an an area of interest such as Avebury and Stonehenge it’s important to stick to the facts (whether those facts are megalithic or mechanical) and not to jump too readily on the bandwagon of speculation. And while Avebury may have been many things, from its inception to its demise, it’s perhaps wise to keep a break on our fascination for, and our speculation of, the place until we have more evidence on what Avebury actually was intended for.
13/04/2010 at 07:02
Roy Goutte
“I’m sure you will agree that in an an area of interest such as Avebury and Stonehenge it’s important to stick to the facts (whether those facts are megalithic or mechanical) and not to jump too readily on the bandwagon of speculation. And while Avebury may have been many things, from its inception to its demise, it’s perhaps wise to keep a break on our fascination for, and our speculation of, the place until we have more evidence on what Avebury actually was intended for.”
I wasn’t speculating Littlestone, I have based what I said in previous posts on what I have actually seen. If your views are different to mine then we’ll both have to live with that. The fact that people that park in these unauthorised places are quickly moved on is beside the point, the fact is they do park there and if the ground is soft then damage is done, end of.
As to ‘what Avebury actually was intended for’ well maybe some people feel they already know and don’t need clarification. Just because archo’s have struggled with it over the years doesn’t mean other mere mortals don’t have opinions you know. Those opinions of course may not be entirrely correct but the bottom line is that nobody will ever know the real truths about such places as Avebury and Stonehenge but it is great fun nevetheless investigating it as I’m sure you will agree.
13/04/2010 at 21:08
Littlestone
“I wasn’t speculating Littlestone, I have based what I said in previous posts on what I have actually seen.”
Sorry, Roy, but I think you *were* speculating – in so much as you claim that, “… parking there however would not constitute, in my opinion, anything near the ‘damage done by [4x4s] replicated many times over and over by the more everyday cars that visit such places as Avebury and Stonehenge…”
Do you *really* think that the damage done by 4x4s on the Ridgeway is, “…replicated many times over and over by the more everyday cars that visit such places as Avebury and Stonehenge…”? If so you will no doubt have evidence for that (preferably photographic so we can see it here and come to our own conclusions) but if not you are, actually, in the realms of speculation.
It would no doubt be of interest to many here to see evidence that ‘everyday cars’ at Avebury are replicating ‘many times over’ the sort of damage 4x4s can cause at places like the Ridgeway. Meanwhile I have to say that, in my own experience, the majority of vehicles (cars, buses, mobile homes etc) visiting Avebury do seem to be properly contained within the allocated parking areas.
06/09/2010 at 06:35
Bucky Edgett
Well, if “everyday cars” are causing as much or more damage as 4x4s, then all the more reason to ban all vehicles. In all seasons. With the possible exception of farm equipment?
Whatever the purpose of Avebury henge, surely no one can argue the Ridgeway was intended to facilitate the passage of motorized vehicles.