A guest feature by Albert Resonox
The Devil’s Stane facing south
On the site of what is now Menzieshill High School, long before the school was built, in fact long before many of the houses in Yarrow Terrace, Tweed Crescent and Dickson Avenue were built, this area being the highest point in the west of Dundee after Balgay Hill (hence the siting of the water tower), there used to be a circle of very large boulders, (reference below)where I and friends used to build dens and jump around from stone to stone. These stones were removed when the school was built and the whole area flattened to make a sports field. Slightly to the east of this at the highest point of the hill (there used to be a triangulation stone) was the site of a long lost castle, the only trace of which left was the midden which was almost like a miniature swamp, it too provided hours of entertainment for us nippers, playing games of dare running and jumping over and through it… (ah the heady days before X-factor eh?). I actually in my early teens verified the existence of this castle by means of vast ancient tomes in the public library, which had it documented (as late Saxon/early Norman), but schools and housing developments deleted all signs of both circle and castle (midden).
Balgarthno Circle taken facing west
The circle however, before houses were built, would have been in full view of the Balgarthno circle so may have had some connection to it. Within easy walking distance of these locations are The Devil’s Stane and Dark Stane Roundie though to be fair The Roundie has been dismissed by some as a lookout post for the Dundee to Perth stagecoach, though its location and the main route are quite a bit apart… and a lookout point doesn’t seem to be an essential item, as it is too small and remote to have been a “high” coachstop… and at one point (pre-Victorian) had a large upright slab of grey slate in its centre… hence its name… but that is only my opinion/idea. Further on the road to Perth there is the Falcon Stone(which I have never visited… but will one day).
Dark Stane Roundie facing east
Grid references;
Balgarthno Circle; NO353315
The Devil’s Stane; NO346310
Dark Stanie Roundie; NO362310
The Heritage Journal 
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15/01/2011 at 19:23
Colin Irons
If you go to the National Library of Scotland’s online maps; http://geo.nls.uk/ostowns/ , click the 1848-72 maps and zoom into the relevant 6 inch map of the Menzieshill area, you will indeed find just to the northwest of Menzieshill farm a rectangular plan with the ‘Olde style’ font, indicating an ancient site; Castle (supposed site of). This would put the castle at the present day site of St. Ninians Church and Primary school grounds and not as you say Menzieshill High School. (You can get a satellite image overlay.) I suspect the ‘midden’ you played in as a nipper was therefore the quarry at Hillside. Interestingly the plan looks very much like the fortification that used to be atop the Law, with a north/south elongation and large bastions at the four corners. This was excavated by Steve Driscoll in 1993. (http://ads.ahds.ac.uk/catalogue/adsdata/PSAS_2002/pdf/vol_125/125_1091_1108.pdf). The circular feature just west of the site of the castle is the Dark Stane Roundie. Check your own co-ordinates! Canmore describes it thus;
“A small circular, wooded enclosure on Menzieshill farm, known locally as “Dark Stane” Roundie, derived its name from a large upright block of dark whinstone, standing near its centre, almost enveloped in foliage. It has been suggested that it formed part of a stone circle, and when it was removed in 1888, a quantity of bones was ploughed up at the spot where it stood. Further human bones were found all over the Roundie when it was ploughed over. The stone was about 7′ high, 4′ broad and 1′ thick, entirely unsculptured, but fairly smooth on the sides which faced east and west. A large piece lying on the ground was said to have been struck off by lightning.”
Dark Stane Roundie is NOT the feature in your picture. There are a number of websites that mistakenly have pictures of this mound and refer to it as the Dark Stane Roundie. The following 2 paragraphs from RCAHMS explain that mound’s origin;
(NO 3585 3033) At the SW corner of the grounds of Invergowrie house is a large conical mound, said to have been raised by a former proprietor connected with the naval service, to enable him to have a clear view of the river.
G Cumming 1843.
This mound is 35.0m in diameter and 8.0m high. The tiny, flat top has five stone blocks on it (? base of hut), but the whole does not have the appearance of any type of antiquity. The Rev J McEwan (Invergowrie) states that there is a traditiion that Cromwell had a gun mounted on this mound. However, the explanation given by Cummings, or the lodge-keeper at Invergowrie House, is more likely correct. The latter states that in stage-coach days there was a small cabin erected on top of the mound, from which the coach could be seen approaching from both Perth and Dundee; thereupon, a signal would be made to the house and the people there would have time to make their way to meet the coach. Visited by OS (J L D) 18 April 1958.
Some locals also mistakenly refer to it as an ice house. It is also curious that you mention a stone circle of very large boulders on the site of the high school grounds. There is no mention of this on the map yet the Balgarthno circle is clearly deemed worthy of inclusion. Perhaps your circle wasn’t as ancient and maybe something to do with the aforementioned quarry. If you go onto Google Earth and click on the Historical Imagery you can view the area as an aerial photograph taken in December 1945. As you can see the actual Dark Stane Roundie has gone by this time but the site of the castle was still a feature with trees casting shadows to the NW. The elongated triangular wooded fearure directly to the north of Menzieshill farm is still there! When permission was given to build St. Ninians, it was under the proviso that this wooded area be retained. I don’t know the reason for this but I think the farmer there also farmed at Findowrie near Brechin and may still have descendants there, you could ask them if they know. It is between the path going up the east side of the church and the bottom of Dochart Terrace. I cant make out a stone circle in the vicinity of the triangulation point although there are some interesting crop marks. Further south you can see the circular mound in the SW corner of the wooded grounds of Invergowrie House.
Very close to the De’ils Stane a unique Pictish stone was discovered at Bullionfield. RCAHMS has this to say;
A sculptured stone slab was found at Bullion while making the new by-pass road. It was 6’2″ long, 2’5″ broad and 5 3/4″ thick, and was of red sandstone. On one face is the figure of a bearded man on horseback, carrying a sword and circular shield, and drinking out of an ox horn. It was donated to the National Museum of Antiquities of Scotland (NMAS) by Angus County Council in 1934. (Accession no: IB 229)
Proc Soc Antiq Scot 1935.
The findspot was approximately sited to NO 3433 3054, on the course of the by-pass road, by Mr D B Taylor (Delvine, Longforgan).
Visited by OS (J L D) 3 July 1952.
You can see it in the National museum in Edinburgh although I’d love to see a replica of it in or near situ. I think it would be an attraction to the area, which as you can see has much more history to it than meets the eye these days.
Finally, talking of drinking, over the road from the long lost site of Dark Stane Roundie is the pub called the Rock. I remember in the early seventies that it had a pictish stone (probably fibreglass) in a window, (long since bricked up) that was draped in cans of beer. Was this in reference to the area’s history, hmm… I wonder. On the grassy bank to the east of the Rock were two large groups of quarried stone assembled to form primitve looking fortifications upon which I played as a wee laddie and was referred to as Menzies Castle. One of the groups has been cleared away but the one with the horseshoe formation remains whilst the multistorey blocks that used to cast their shadow over them have also now tumbled into history. I hope the remaining megalithic folly survives.
10/03/2011 at 15:12
Resonox
Cheers for your comments… and even I can’t argue with maps… but I definitely did play where I said, I did indeed play in Hillside Quarry as a youngster… as did my father and grandfather before me… there was water in their times… and they used to catch newts there… the North-east corner had large sandstone slabs with holes bigger than rabbit holes in them… possibly the remnants of actual quarrying. I used to play there before Tweed Crescent was built, these houses during construction provided dens too and quite often the watchie and his boxer dog would chase us for our lives… He wasn’t as curmudgeonly as you’d think, he even welcomed us youngsters and would make us tins of tea, he’d be reported nowadays… his dog was reputed to be able to say rudimentary words (never heard any myself).
The triangulation point (north of Dochart Tce) was removed along with the large rocks when the High School was built. Slightly to the South-west of this stone was the swampy area… (midden?). Also when the school was built they had a map in the foyer with much more detail of the “castle”.
Before St. Ninian’s School was built (and obviously before the church) the path that runs up the entrance side was a field boundary (most of the trees remain.)where quite often rabbit poachers had traps set… we would sometimes find pelts after the rabbits had been skinned in situ. Indeed that little copse between the school and church remains… it was a good deal larger before the building… in fact there was a big hollow tree right in the middle of the copse.
I do recall the “stone” in the window of The Rock (a pub I didn’t frequent more than a couple of times) and the placing of “the castle” rocks. There was a ruined building too… down the field close to where there was a playpark built(is it still there?) off of Dickson Ave. A tramp lived there with a dog, and possibly ferrets (rumours) we were sure it was The Hairy Highlander’s (ask yer ma if you don’t know that one) abode, and no-one I knew ever actually crawled into its reputedly spacious interior… though many claimed they had.
Regarding the naming of the pub “The Rock”… I was told it was because it had a splendid view of “Whale rock”. The Bayview IMO would have been better placed for this. BTW, moving south to Charleston, Buttars Loan to be precise, I worked in the old farm houses there a couple of times, they were ancient with stone flag floors etc., and were beside the true route of the “Loan”. I could chat for hours about this.
25/03/2011 at 19:32
Colin Irons
Interesting stuff Albert. I was educated at the high school but don’t recall the map in the foyer. I was out in Glasgow last night with a man and a woman who were in the very first intake so I wish I’d asked them about it. It would seem then that MHS either got it wrong or they were trying to steal St. Ninians thunder ha ha. Your stories of the watchie giving you chase jogged my memories too, except in my case it was the ‘man in the blue van’ at Ninewells Hospital we used to torment. We’d run amok through the carpark knocking out the fuse for the street lamps and he’d drive towards us at breakneck speed but we always had our getaway planned as we’d just slide down the lampie from the top tier to the lower one and by the time he’d got down we’d be through the fence and offski. The playpark off Dickson avenue is still there and the building you talk of would have been part of the Menzieshill Farm. The playparks these days seem terribly sanitised and safe to what we had. Really tall chutes, witches hats, shogie boats and monkey bars all on asphalt! We had mair skint knees and bandaged nappers back then. There were more vagrants in those days living rough or in old buildings but I’ve no idea who the hairy highlander was. I dont think you could see whale rock from the Rock pub because Ninewells Court was in the way, but now it’s gone you might be able to. I could blether about this for ages too, in fact I’ve probably poured over those maps and aerial photos for longer than is healthy. I might write an article about it all and see if the Courier is interested.
12/02/2012 at 19:50
Bill Dryden
I was brought up at Ninewells which was just a strip of houses on the South side of the Perth Road. In the village we had a wee shop, a smiddy and a garage. This was in the 50’s. The house I lived in at 564 perth Road was an old coaching Inn. it was demolished in the 80’s.
As kids, we would go up Invergowrie Drive,past the lodge house to Invergowie House and then to Menzieshill and Gowrie Hill farms.
The tram terminus ended at Ninewells just before Laurie’s nursery.
,Heading West along the Perth Road, we went under the railway bridge, which carried the Dundee to Newtyle railway.On reaching Invergowrie, the Home farm was first on the left,opposite the road to Fowlis and Liff.
Here are some names…
Bill davidson owned the shop. Joe Johnstone was the blacksmith, Eck Simpson ran the garage and Johnny Callaghan had the scrapyard. I think Ben Young was in the Home Farm Invergowrie.
14/02/2012 at 17:47
Colin Irons
I was trying to find out some more about the castle that stood on Menzieshill and it appears we may have shared our childhood haunts with illustrious predecessors. Put this link into your browser and you will go to a scan of the book, “Royal Palaces of Scotland” by Helen Douglas-Irvine M.A. (St.Andrews) pub. 1911. From the middle of page 13 to the top of page 14 it would seem that this 11th Century fortification could have been the dwelling place of Alexander the First and his Queen Sybilla. http://www.archive.org/stream/royalpalacesofsc00douguoft#page/12/mode/2up
I’d love to “geo-phys” the area to see what was there. There has to be artifacts still there somewhere, despite the developments over the ages, both agricultural and urban.
The only farm that was occupied when I was there was the one at the top of the lane that ran by the Gows mansion, demolished in the 70’s along with the old railway brigde over the lane.