Dear Farming Colleagues,
You should read some detecting forums. It’s clear money is the main interest of many people and loads of finds aren’t being shown to us as a consequence. So I’ve been wondering what’s the point of us signing finds agreements? The Responsibility Code (for detectorists) says it avoids future ownership disputes. But it categorically doesn’t as by law they’re already our artefacts, no-one else’s. No archaeologist would tell us we need a document on top of the law as that only muddies the water and reduces the clarity of our ownership rights. With one exception: PAS (in conjunction with no other archaeologists nota bene) specifically recommends landowners to get a finds agreement! For whose benefit would that be?
Don’t do it. Sign nothing, especially if it contains the word “share”. By all that’s logical, legal, practical, safe and just it should be YOU alone who decides what (if anything) you give away, and then only when you’ve seen everything the detectorist has found, not before. So if you own land in England or Wales here are three simple rules you could show to a detectorist. No need for you to sign anything – nor indeed for him to either. It would suffice for him to know what you require of him as a condition of going on your land. No dishonest or money-orientated detectorist will wish to comply so it’s good for both you and heritage!
Silas Brown
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Notice to those seeking permission to metal detect
Rule 1 Keep one thing in your mind: it’s mine. Bring it to me before you return to your car. My brother may run your metal detector over you. I’ll show all items to PAS and then I may give some to a museum or to you. If you love history you’ll be pleased.
Rule 2 Do NOT say “let’s build a trusting relationship” (how’s that in MY interest, rather than just yours?) I prefer a structured, businesslike approach, not a pally one based on a bottle of wine at Xmas as from now on I wish to be 100% sure all artefacts found, whether many or few, valuable or not, reach me safely.
Rule 3 If you’re offended, read the Code. Archaeologists advise you to get an agreement “in writing” rather than trust me. So what’s good for Kev is good for Silas, see? Also, if we use a detector on you, imagine we’re airport security guards. Would they make an exception if someone said “just trust me”? If you object to being checked don’t ask for access to a plane – or my fields, OK?
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(For more from Farmer Brown put Silas in the search box.)
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More Heritage Action views on metal detecting and artefact collecting
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The Heritage Journal 
33 comments
Comments feed for this article
24/03/2013 at 16:06
Darren Ross
have you considered that not all farmers are interested and don’t want to see finds. some are only interested in money from “treasure” and it is actually the detectorist that would bore the pants off anybody willing to listen about his georgian buttons or rotten turner coin? ive tried to interest farmers but they just say “call me if ye find gold”
24/03/2013 at 16:45
heritageaction
Yes, such farmers are very numerous according to detectorists although we’ve never met one like that, not if they’re properly informed – for instance of the fact some finds aren’t gold but are fabulously valuable.
24/03/2013 at 22:14
Darren Ross
well maybe down south but i’m embarrassed to show some farmers the meagre collection of buttons and rotten coppers i find. they think i’m mad for spending hours on their field. i may find a georgian sivler or even gold sov but treasure trove are not interested in these. the recorded finds of hammered coins have established how much widely spread coinage was used in scotland medieval times (more than initially thought). i have shown a farmer a medieval hammered coin and he was more interested in the projectiles even the shotgun cartridges!admittedly some are suspicious that someone would wander about in the mud for hours repeatedly for days. “they must be pulling treasure out of my ground” thinks the farmer when in actual fact the detectorist is perfectly content to unearth rotting coppers and buttons.
this idea of “an intact record of archeology” is flawed by due to the ploughing,chemicals and modern agricultural machinery. as for copper alloy artifacts they dont stand a chance against modern fertilisers etc. i agree that undisturbed pasture is a different case but these also tend to be where the most famous hoards have been found to the delight of many archeologists and museums.
the staffordshire hoard damage had been done by ploughing over centuries. left in the ground it would have continued to have been damaged and maybe never found at all
25/03/2013 at 03:17
heritageaction
“well maybe down south”
We’re agreed then.
“i’m embarrassed to show some farmers the meagre collection of buttons and rotten coppers i find”…. “i may find a georgian sivler or even gold sov”
!!!
“the detectorist is perfectly content to unearth rotting coppers and buttons”
Pull the other one.
25/03/2013 at 08:59
Darren Ross
If you don’t believe me you should visit a dig and see how many go home with nothing but buttons etc but are still happy with the fresh air and company. Do anglers give up because of many wet days and catch nothing?
If you are detecting every weekend for say 6 months in ploughed fields you would be lucky to find even one hammered coin. And unless its a scottish coin treasure trove are not particulary interested in it anyway.
Most of the land is owned by huge estates but all the “treasure” is owned by the crown. Us peasants are allowed on occaission to find artifacts on the lords estate for her majesty . I’m proud to say I was part of a party that found a medieval hoard of coins on a stubble field which was handed in its entirety to treasure trove. Some coins showed modern damage due to agricultural machiney. I just don’t see how this example can be bad? We made no money and the country gained heritage. There was no stratification as it was ploughed topsoil and accuate gps was taken.
25/03/2013 at 09:06
heritageaction
If you don’t believe me you should visit a dig and see how many go home with nothing but buttons etc but are still happy with the fresh air and company.
As it happens there have been three surveys designed to reveal how many recordable finds are made by detectorists in England and Wales. Those are the best indicators currently available.
25/03/2013 at 11:07
Darren Ross
cold stats can always be flawed by the interpretation and how they are recorded. all i’m saying if you are so suspicious of detectorists stealing heritage it wouldn’t do any harm to actually attending a rally and see for yourself what goes on. if its “heritage action” then actually going out a documenting the loss of heritage would be better than relying on someone elses stats surely?
we had one in scotland that was attended by treasure trove where a number TT staff walked around chatting to detectorists and helped I.D finds whilst recording the ones of interest. unfortunately there wasn’t much found even with about 100 on the fields but most were happy to view other peoples finds and be part of the event.
25/03/2013 at 11:20
heritageaction
“cold stats can always be flawed by the interpretation and how they are recorded.”
Oh really! You should tell that to CBA, EH, UKDN and David Connolly, not us!
No, you’re determined to present a particular picture rather than accept the evidence so we’ll have to differ.
25/03/2013 at 12:44
Darren Ross
i have no doubt we differ on opinion but i think its worth putting up an opposing argument for any casual readers so they can make up their own mind.
25/03/2013 at 12:58
heritageaction
Quite, no problem with that. And although they’ve all been put to us before thanks for putting your points without abusing us. It’s not what usually happens.
21/05/2013 at 15:02
stephen llewellyn
I offer my farmers a search agreement but most trust me, i never leave a farm without showing anything ive found. if farmers says how much is that worth, i tell him, if he wants it, he can have it, im not in it for cash, ive never sold anything ive found except a sovereign which was found on a beach in yorkshire, and that was only because my engine broke on my car preventing me from getting out. like some of the other comments , the main finds are lead and pieces of bronze and buttons galore, yes you get roman coinage, and for anything to be worth a lot of money it as to be exceptional or rare.
i find on average 20 ancient silver coins a year from roman to medieval, ive found one hoard since i started in 95, these roman silver coins are on display in whitby museum, i shared the reward with the farmer, it was only 375 pounds.
please dont think that we stroll off farmers fields laden with gold, to think that is total lunacy and is complete rubbish.
yes sometimes ppl find coins that are rare and yes just like anything else in life you will get dishonest people but i must say that metal detectorists seem quite a honest bunch but only if they do it by the book!!!
Mr Brown, if you want to know what is on your land and can trust us detectorists we will do it and you can come and watch and you have my word you will see everything that is found, and i guarantee that if you said i like that , 9 times out of 10 the detectorist will say…..HERE YOU GO MATE.
21/05/2013 at 15:50
Tim
“9 times out of 10 the detectorist will say…..HERE YOU GO MATE.”
How on earth could you know that?
Only 30% of detectorists show all their finds to PAS, but 90% show all their finds to the farmer ??!!
# Don’t think so!
21/05/2013 at 16:38
stephen llewellyn
are you one of them Tim? i record all my finds that come into the scope of 300 years old. everyone in the club im in also record their finds, our flo visits every 3 months and she takes away bag fulls of artefacts and coins and treasure is reported as its found, our searches are organised properley. we are not all dodgy , end of story, wont get into an argument with you as you dont know me at all.
21/05/2013 at 16:45
heritageaction
The point is Stephen, every detectorist that comes here says they report all their finds but 70% + detectorists don’t. That’s the grim reality.
21/05/2013 at 18:41
Phill
I am fairly new to the detecting as a hobby and my 10yr old son and I spend hours on the beach….. We have been on a cople of organised digs with a promotion company in Newbury. We have only had one good find of a ring on a beach…. Other than that, nothing but rubbish really… But his face when we unearth an old bullet casing or button….it’s priceless…. Land to detect on is very hard to find….. Its the night hawkers who are in it for the money…. For me a day out with my boy in the fresh air makes me happy. And even if we do remove a couple of kilos of old rusty crap from a farmers land…. So what……. It’s been time spent with my best mate and fun. If we ever find anything of historical interest or value (fingers crossed) it will be reported and logged in the correct way and given to the land owner….. Not the farmer (Unless he owns the land) I have also known farmers who are tenants making a fair few quid from finds on land they rent…. I know farmers who allow digs on their land who charge up to £15 a detector for an arranged dig…… Who are out for profit then?
I agree that some people are only in it for the money…. But as they saying goes…. Please don’t tar us all with the same brush…. And telling other farmers to boycott detectorists…..it just makes it harder for genuine people… And in fact makes more people head towards illegal detecting in the middle of the night…..it’s such a shame…. So much history is being found these days when a new housing estate goes up…. When a farmer has sold the land….. Then he sees what was under his nose all the time…. Why not let an old boy….or a father and son….wander around for a few hours. Then if you feel the need to use airport security tactics on people you go into business with… Go ahead… I joined a detecting club and it’s full of good old boys… We do the right thing…or we get kicked out… A FLO comes to our monthl meetings too….. We can show our finds and get some knowledge….
It’s a real shame that you feel that way about detectorists…. But we are not all treasure hunters or dishonest.
22/05/2013 at 04:17
heritageaction
A succession of detectorists coming here to say the criticism doesn’t apply to them personally doesn’t answer the criticism. The criticism is certainly justified in the case of most detectorists and we have every right to be indignant about that fact.
I’m glad your club is full of good old boys who do nothing wrong and assume they’ll be familiar with, and conform to this … http://www.ethicaldetecting.org.uk/
22/05/2013 at 06:21
jimmyswing
your just another mr barford who hates metal detecting 🙂 but thats fine as the end of the day haters are gonna hate even tho you ain’t never gonna stop are great hobbie for us resposnable detectorists! yes theres gonna be cheats in are hobbie like in every hobbie there is and theres gonna be norrow minded people like you n others who are never gonna be happy till are hobbie is banned but thats never gonna happen! 🙂 🙂
22/05/2013 at 06:43
heritageaction
!
22/05/2013 at 07:37
stephen llewellyn
That ethical detecting sheet is a joke, most farmers will say this and i know because i show all my farmers what ive found and have been doing so since 1995. “you walked all day for it son, you found it and anything you find on my land , you can keep, i havnt the time to go all over my land with a metal detector and it would only be left to rot” this site is a joke and i wont be commenting again, archaeologists have very large collections of artefacts and coins and were do you think they come from? who polices them? your just a bigot and you ask any FLO about this Paul Barford and they will tell you what they think. I do a lot of work with archaeologists in Durham and they are very helpful, we help each other, every year we help uncover hundreds of coins and artefacts on a roman fort for them, we pay our own costs , we supply our own time, we ask for nothing , Durham archaeology take all finds !!!!! This site is anti detectorist and your probably a keyboard warrior sat behind your little desk dishing out the sh*te.
22/05/2013 at 08:06
heritageaction
“That ethical detecting sheet is a joke”
!!
That’s just a massive public confession, as everyone except you can see.
22/05/2013 at 08:29
stephen llewellyn
its a load of codswallop, were the archaeologists one ?
22/05/2013 at 09:05
heritageaction
There are loads of Codes for archaeologists.
I think you should stop now. You must be embarrassing your colleagues unbearably (ask them).
22/05/2013 at 09:53
stephen llewellyn
silas brown , here is my email address ….stevellewellyn21@hotmail.com
i challenge you to let a group of detectorists on your land, i promise you , you will see everything that is found on your land and i also will arrange a flo to attend and record everything, she can even take it all away to do so, if there is anything among it that you like , then im sure you will get it and if you want stuff selling and you want half then that isnt a problem either, put your money were your mouth is, i also challenge you to use my spare machine and walk all day like us and then look at your finds. the challenge is set for you, lets see eh!!!
22/05/2013 at 10:43
Eddie
Heritageaction, i would like to know how you know 70% of detectorists dont report their finds and Tim how do you know only 30% show their finds to PAS are these figures derived from surveys ? I can honestly say no one knows the absolute truth on what is or isnt reported in all forms of recovering artifacts and coins. We can only hope that in any hobby or career people do the correct thing. But as you have pointed out your goal it to take responsability of finds from all finders to the land owners, whether this be by the means of detectorists or archiology. The law and codes of conduct already cover this thoroughly. The comments and figures above you and Tim have quoted are contentious, they are impossible to prove and i dont think they should be quoted, even though i am sure you will say you have had them from a recognised source. The generall metal detecting communitywould like to see all people report all finds and have all none law abiding members of the community prosecuted and banned.
22/05/2013 at 13:29
heritageaction
“Heritageaction, i would like to know how you know 70% of detectorists dont report their finds and Tim how do you know only 30% show their finds to PAS are these figures derived from surveys ?”
Yes.
http://www.heritageaction.org.uk/erosioncounter/
22/05/2013 at 13:36
heritageaction
“i challenge you to let a group of detectorists on your land”
I don’t think so since you think ethical detecting is a joke!
Enough now.
29/06/2014 at 10:22
Edwin
Terms like a load of rusty rubbish and bits of old bronze(?!!) and lead etc do not display an appreciation of the history associated with crud. What of the pottery shards discarded and separated from possible related metal finds? What of context etc.?
Do detectorists map the location of each find along with its depth and any different layers observed in the hole. In fact are the holes dug “to get the stuff out” in anywat compatible with observing strata etc.?
An interesting and greedy hobby with a veneer of doing good for our history.
17/05/2019 at 15:34
Michael Gerstmanm
Due to modern farming and chemicals these items are in danger and putting out a hate message to all farmers about detectorist’s which is not professional and not legal. You cannot directly tell people not to sign a legal document, you can only advise. You have no way of knowing what % is not reported as its not reported so the numbers you claim is someone’s guess at best. I don’t pretend to know everything but I do know people do not like being told what to do with there land so educate by all means, understand that the bigger wedge you create farmers, detectorist’s and heritage will lead back to nighthawing and finds not being reported? All people I know go to clubs or take months of searching and a hundred no`s till they get a permission with everything done properly, I wouldn’t risk being on a farmers land without permission as I value my legs. The best thing to do is educate and connect these groups and help them not hinder, why not give a training course for all group leaders on how to install a structured process that benefits everyone moving forward.
17/05/2019 at 19:42
heritageaction
“You cannot directly tell people not to sign a legal document” …..
Unwitnessed, open-ended, unclear, adjudicated by only one party (who has a crucial financial interest), with no insistence the artefacts are all lodged with the SOLE OWNER or that he obtains an independent assessment of (a.) cultural and (b.) financial value…
And you say we shouldn’t advise farmers to steer clear of such one-sided and calculating agreements?!!!!!!!
We wonder why!
05/02/2023 at 11:10
pwoverhereitgmailcom
Well this all aged badly, the finds are not the farmers property by law and unless they want to end up in prison they have zero say in what is declared and what isn’t. If you don’t want them on your property ban them from your property simple as that, without them you would have nothing at all and they put in the work, so that is your choice.
06/02/2023 at 08:24
heritageaction
Did you deliberately misunderstand? 99.5% belong to the farmer and he is contracting to show it all to the PAS. The rest belongs to the Crown and the farmer is obliged to declare it. It’s up to the Crown what happens to it thereafter.
Detectorists own nothing and should have no say. How hard is that to follow?
And why would they want to anyway? They’re in it for the love of history, aren’t they?
Aged badly indeed! It’s been like that for decades.
06/02/2023 at 13:42
pwoverhereitgmailcom
No I don’t think i did, the way it is written is pretty clear, to say the people putting the effort into finding it, whatever there reason are owed nothing and should have no say is ignorant to say the least 😉 but I guess the other alternative is the farmers get nothing at all and it stays in the ground. And no nothing belongs to the farmer at all, the reward issued by the crown is what may belong to the farmer not the objects themselves.
06/02/2023 at 14:16
heritageaction
“to say the people putting the effort into finding it, whatever there reason are owed nothing and should have no say is ignorant, to say the least”
And yet true. All your mates know all non-Treasure items are the sole property of the landowner. Why do you alone think that such an understanding is ignorant?
As for Treasure rewards, they are not as of right, they are in the gift of the Crown, so again no one is “entitled” to them.
Clear? Please act like an amateur archaeologist who cares only for knowledge, not a grabber.