Church of St Peter, Clyffe Pypard. Image credit Heritage Action
First it was the village hall at Foxham. This time it’s the church at Clyffe Pypard, North of Avebury. As the church website says:
Metal detecting rally at Woodhill Farm, Bushton ….. If you would like to try your hand at unearthing a loot of medieval treasure, ring Jane Angus (01793 731246) for a ticket, £15 per person. There will be experts on hand from the Salisbury Museum to authenticate your finds. All funds will go directly to the upkeep of St Peter’s Clyffe Pypard. Saturday 17th April 2010 at 10:00 AM
That’s what you get if that which is plain criminal in other countries is officially “partnered” rather than controlled – churches being misled into thinking that because raising money in this way is legal it’s therefore moral! Perhaps the church should ask a few questions and get in line with churches abroad, (none of which would dare raise funds in this way – or think it was other than a terrible idea)…..
1. These experts (from the Portable Antiquities Scheme possibly) could be asked, straight out, if they actually think this event is a good idea? Or if they are actually there to record what they can because the event is going ahead anyway, whatever anyone says? Did they actually ENCOURAGE this event? Have they ever encouraged ANY such event? (Pin them down. Ask them for a yes or a no.) In their opinion is the investigation of the buried archaeological resource here needed? In view of English Heritage’s guidelines for proper professional investigations is it being done in the best way or a totally and utterly inferior and damaging way that English Heritage would say no archaeologist should dream of employing? (Make sure you ask these questions to any archaeologists or archaeological bodies you can find, but in strict confidence, and make sure the answers are unequivocal. If they say this event is a good thing and they want it to go ahead then ask them to put it in writing. And draw your own conclusions when they won’t!)
2. “All funds will go directly to the upkeep of St Peter’s Clyffe Pypard.” Oh WILL they? So will all the finds be donated to the village for local display or for selling in aid of the church? Are this busload of detectorists coming all the way from Wales to Wiltshire and paying you a fee going to do exactly that, to help your village and your church, or are they going to take some if not all of your history home with them to keep for themselves or to sell on EBay? (Do take a look on Ebay, it’s a revelation!)
So please, please consider whether letting people do in Clyffe Pypard what would get them sent to jail for elsewhere outside Britain is a good idea. (Do your own research, don’t take our word for it!) If you really need to investigate your history pay for a proper archaeological exercise (not that they’ll agree – archaeology prefers not to disturb the record unless it’s unavoidable and archaeologists don’t dig our communal inheritance up for fun or to claim for themselves, or to sell, or on a false pretext of charity), there’s no other way that won’t deprive the next generation of local inhabitants it’s right to it’s own historical record.
“Where’s our history Daddy?”
“The church flogged it to a busload of Welsh people for a few pounds each and it’s no longer here. You could go to all their houses if you know who they are and ask them if they still have it, or ask Ebay if you could look through their sales archives – or see pictures of an unknown proportion of it on the internet.”
(PS, yes, yes, “Treasure items will be shared fifty fifty”, bet you’ve been told that, but what about the 99.9% of archaeologically interesting or valuable items that will be found that will NOT be Treasure Items – did anyone mention those? Will they end up on the bus? We think you know the answer.)
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The Heritage Journal 
17 comments
Comments feed for this article
07/04/2010 at 20:34
metal detecting rallys for life
haha! just because you all want it for your selfs
i see nothing wrong with this happening because 89% the finds will be from general loses and its going to be recorded any way
‘daddy wheres our history?’
‘Son, its in the local museum lets go and have a look’
08/04/2010 at 08:12
heritageaction
Wow, it’s rare to come across a metal detectorist that’s good at psychology, moral philosophy, archaeology, statistical analysis and spelling, as you have highlighted.
10/04/2010 at 07:49
Albert Resonox
There appears to be a line or two missing from the “Father/Son” conversation…
‘daddy where’s our history?’
‘Son, it’s in the local museum let’s go and have a look… and we can afford to drop a few coins in the voluntary collection box because we were paid handsomely for that Saxon gold we found and sold.’
‘Daddy, how were we able to sell the gold with such impunity?’
‘That’s the beauty of it son… we also dropped a few pence in the local charity box, which entitled us to keep any finds under £300… and each individual piece was worth £299.99, so we were able to keep them according to our own made up rules!’
‘Oh brilliant daddy, we are such altruists and all those charities benefiting gives me a warm thrill down my spine… let’s do some more charitable pocket lining!!!!’
15/08/2010 at 06:17
Nighthawker
Ha Ha… get over it Pal stop slating Metal detectorists. YOU WILL NEVER STOP IT.
ITS MORE POPULAR NOW THAN EVER
14/10/2010 at 23:50
Andy
Amazing stunning…. I cannot believe you can actually write…. I will type slowly so you can read it. O K?
Metal detectorists dig in the 12 inch topsoil we find, not much, but junk. But it is a day out away from stress and life. We meet in the field have a chat and a laugh and the odd dig.
Archaeologists dig with BIG machines excavators.. think silly who destroys the artifacts??? T U N E in to Time Team.. have a look
Oh and if you need to do something with your time, go fight the SMOKING ban. It is the sole reason why our country is in such deep Sh&t. The Gov lost 1.5 Billion a week because of taxes they used to get. Now they don’t because we do not go to the pub anymore, 1 million students cant get work to help them through the Uni. Pubs are closing. Enjoy the high taxes You Do-Gooders created it.
Seriously P*ssed off……
15/10/2010 at 22:00
Mary Barker
Not entirely sure how ‘typing slowly’ relates to the speed people read these pages but I’m sure you understand what you’re trying to say.
However, whether or not you’re removing ‘artifacts’ [sic] from a couple of centimetres below the surface, or much deeper down, is neither here nor there. If you’re doing that, and are unqualified to do so, it’s a bit like me pulling your teeth or your appendix (though I do have a fair idea where those are and how to use a pair of pliers).
As for the smoking ban and the closure of pubs. tsk, do get real. Smoking costs the NHS (the tax payer) more than it ever gets in taxes from smokers via tobacco bought over the counter. And as for the (sad) demise of the pub, this is more due to changes in social behaviour (watching TV with mates), tighter drink-drive laws and cheaper beer from the supermarkets.
It strikes me that you think you have the right to do more or less what you want – ie to dig up our heritage because it’s ‘a laugh and a day out’ for you and your friends. To smoke in public places even though that causes discomfort and illness to others. What else do you do I wonder. Drive while (just) over the limit? Use your mobile while driving when you think no-one’s watching?
Your last name wouldn’t be Jack would it (and you first name I’m alright)?
15/10/2010 at 23:00
Anybeachwilldo
What a sad bunch of do gooders you lot are.
Get a life, try sex, ive heard it is really good for you and helps take your mind off whinging about others and moaning about what others do.
Failing that, try SUICIDE! HA HA HA YOU SAD MORONS
17/10/2010 at 18:50
Mary Barker
“Get a life, try sex, ive [sic] heard it is really good for you…”
Well, if you’ve only ‘heard’ it’s good I suggest you give it a try… assuming, that is, you’re old enough 😉
01/11/2010 at 21:43
pete
Iv been detecting for years, was chairman of a club, raised money for children with cancer with rallies. Have caught a women who was chairman of lenham archaeology club, night hawking on a site she was digging after a tip off from two members of our club. so dont sit on your high horse slagging us off look at your own people and sort your own shit out.
24/11/2010 at 23:58
Rob
Alternative future…
“Where’s our history Daddy?”
There isn’t anything left son, after the complete metal detecting ban the majority of finds were destroyed by modern farming techniques, corrosion and basically left undiscovered in the fields because the fields that the majority of ‘finds’ came from would never have been walked or examined by any archaeologist in their own spare time.
Also because of the ban there was an increase in nighthawking and items were sold on the black market and never saw the light of day. Take the arrest of the dealer who was selling saxon gold artefacts that were said to have been found somewhere in Staffordshire, god only knows exactly how much was said to have been found there but rumour has it is was a kings ransom!
This is an alternative reality, but if metal detecting is banned then some of the most fantastic finds of the past 10 years would NEVER have been discovered! Metal detecting has contributed to the knowledge of the history of OUR country, yes it is also OUR country to!
So what if a metal detectorist goes out for 6 or 7 hours in to a field that is never going to be looked at by an archaeologist and fills his find pouch up. 90% of it will be junk, bullets, shell casings, shotgun cartridges but also he’ll maybe have a couple of King Edward I pennies. If they are so important to OUR ‘history’ why are they always handed back as “not required or wanted’ by museums? So what do you do with them after they are given back to you, throw them back into the field to get battered some more?
What future do you want, one where metal detectorist add and contribute to the wonderful history of our country or one where metal detectorists don’t exist and the likes of the amazing finds of the past 10 years or so don’t exist and become more damaged and undiscovered.
Oh and what Pete has put above, about the archaeologist. I am good friends with a nice fellow who was a prominent archaeologist, he retired about 8 years ago and has a fantastic collection of flint arrow heads, axe heads and blades collected from a site in England and presented to him upon his retirement by his fellow archaeologists! There was me thinking private collections were frowned upon!
25/11/2010 at 04:30
Nigel
Your posting is based upon an erroneous assumption about our stance.
We don’t want metal detectorists to be banned we want metal detectorists to behave.
http://www.ethicaldetecting.org.uk/
25/11/2010 at 09:29
Rob
3. Members will never ask landowners to enter into “finds sharing agreements” but instead will promptly deliver ALL finds of interest into the hands of their legal owner, the landowner.
Why ALL finds of interest, surely if everything belongs to the land owner then ALL finds should be handed over, they can then conact their local museum who will have to come and sort through everything worthless or not, a time consuming and very costly exercise which I’m sure would soon be scrapped when the museum has to employ someone to do it costing tens of thousands of pounds per year.
Does this then mean that the British Museum will be giving up all it holds in its coffers and returned to their rightful countries where there were found.
i.e. The Elgin Marbles.
An example set by the French.
“Last year, France repatriated the last of five 3,000-year-old stolen Egyptian relics that ended up in the French Louvre museum. They were removed from a wall painting of an ancient Egyptian tomb in the 1980s.”
I’m sure that many of our very large museums have items in them that have been “acquired” one way or another without the permission of the rightful owner from the likes of Egypt and Greece to name just a couple.
Best not to throw stones if you live in a green house.
25/11/2010 at 09:48
Nigel
Of course you should “promptly deliver ALL finds of interest into the hands of their legal owner, the landowner” and take absolutely nothing away without showing him and obtaining his consent. Since it all belongs to him anything else would be plain dishonest wouldn’t it?
I have to tell you, picking holes in ethical detecting behaviour looks very much like finding excuses to not behave ethically – and the reason I am confident that’s the case is that there are already ethical detectorists out there conforming to all ten EMDA pledges without the least difficulty.
The Association is for the willing, who know from experience the pledges present no difficulties whatsoever, no-one else.
25/11/2010 at 10:03
Rob
I see you have not mentioned anything to do with the items the BM holds Nigel?
Does this mean that it is okay for the establishement to hold on to items that belong to someone else but not okay for individuals?
Isn’t this more of a case of do as I say but not as I do?
I’ll leave it there as I know I behave correctly and thus have nothing to worry about, my ethics are well intact.
I was trying to voice a word of caution, by trying to impose more and more regulations, more and more items will not get seen or recorded.
25/11/2010 at 11:22
Nigel
Does this mean that it is okay for the establishement to hold on to items that belong to someone else but not okay for individuals?
Isn’t this more of a case of do as I say but not as I do?
You seem to be confusing us with the BM and the Establishment. They must answer for themselves. The ethical behaviour of an individual detectorist should in no way be conditional upon what the BM’s behaviour is (and for ethical detectorists who are already acting ethically it isn’t of course). To me, seeking to make such a connection looks very like another instance of desperately seeking excuses to not behave ethically I’m afraid.
“I’ll leave it there“
Very wise.
“as I know I behave correctly and thus have nothing to worry about, my ethics are well intact.”
Excellent. No offering finds agreements or supporting unstructured non-professional rallies for you then!
“I was trying to voice a word of caution, by trying to impose more and more regulations, more and more items will not get seen or recorded.”
But EMDA isn’t the imposition of regulations, it is purely voluntary (as many a thousand detectorists have said about the Code of Responsible Detecting!)
Thanks for the warning though – “by trying to impose more and more regulations, more and more items will not get seen or recorded” – don’t worry, the authorities are well aware of that confession-cum-blackmail that gets trotted out so often on behalf of the hobby.
25/11/2010 at 11:29
Rob
Glad to see that as you are nothing to do with the BM you will also be taking the argument up with them regarding ethics, peoples champion Nigel.
Well done, I commend you.
25/11/2010 at 11:43
Nigel
As it happens, I am very much in favour of the return of the Elgin Marbles and much else but I can only repeat this is of no relevance whatsoever to the issue of ethical detecting. The detectorists’ mantra “I will do what I do because I disapprove of what archaeologists/the establishment/the BM do” is about as sensible as “I will park on double yellow lines because I disapprove of what archaeologists/the establishment/the BM do”. No connection. A false excuse. Ethical or not ethical is a standalone decision.