It must be a nightmare running the forum UK Detector Net, a real juggling act between appearance and reality. The problem is it used to harbour lots of anti-PAS sentiment but a few years back it suddenly flip-flopped “for hobby survival purposes” and is now ostensibly very pro-PAS and pro-recording. But of course an awful lot of their users don’t agree in word or deed so heavy moderation is needed to ensure “off message” messages don’t appear. Lots of people have been thrown off the forum over the years for saying the “wrong” thing and most of the forum is kept locked from outsiders. Not for nothing is the site now dubbed “The Dark Side”. Think George Orwell without the finesse and you’ll get the idea.
But lately it’s not just the non-recording behaviour of 60% plus of detectorists that is being covered up, it’s the fact a lot of them sell their finds. To this end a new forum rule has been announced:
[Update, 12 April 2012 – Today, a few hours after this was highlighted elsewhere, the above disappeared, having been deleted altogether or transferred to the members-only portion of the site. Whichever is the case, it confirms that (despite the denials of their spokesman) the purpose of the rule is indeed to mislead the public – since it has been deemed necessary for it’s very existence to be hidden from the public. From now on, any visitor to the site such as a landowner considering granting permission for detecting on his land will be given the impression that none of the forum members are in it to make money and will have no idea that the real truth is being secretly manipulated. A forum that trumpets it wants to establish “best practice” is still helping liars to bamboozle farmers, but now it’s doing it secretly!]
The intention is unmistakeable – it is to mislead the public. The standard claim at a farmer’s gate, “I’m an amateur archaeologist and my sole interest is history” gets you permission to detect whereas “I’m going to find stuff in your field and flog it on EBay for my own benefit” doesn’t. Ask a farmer near you which he was told. Then look up “metal detecting finds” on EBay. It’s a misrepresentation so crass as to be little short of theft and aiding people to commit it en masse is not something that the responsible elements of the metal detecting community should be doing.
But they know that’s what we think. We’ve told them often enough. They should split away– for their own sake and that of the resource. In an association of truly ethical detectorists there would be no need to warn morally challenged people to keep quiet about what they got up to – they wouldn’t be tolerated at all, and quite right too. When will thoughtful, responsible detectorists finally acknowledge the logic of that? Paul Barford has said it so well in his piece The Hidden Dark Underbelly of UK Metal Detecting
“is it not precisely the passivity of the majority of the “responsible guys” towards the extent of the loutishness in their ranks of the hobby that leads to this situation?”
Yes it is.
UPDATE 1 August 2011: Anyone who remains puzzled about how asking detectorists not to mention on the forum if they sell their finds isn’t deliberately misleading the public by omission might care to note the contents of the LAND-OWNER / DETECTORIST CONTRACT that is displayed on the site… Not a single solitary word about acting in accordance with the Code of Responsible Detecting or recording finds with PAS and plenty about the monetary value of the finds – and selling them! Just how that fits in with detectorists being in it for the love of history is hard to see – or with UKDN saying, “we do not support the selling of finds”, “UKDN does not want to be seen to be any part of this side of the hobby” and “UKDN took the stance that the only way forward for the hobby (and for our membership) was to make sure that, as far as we could influence people, we would pursue the highest standards of recording, following the Code of Practice for Responsible Detecting” ! Let’s hope they don’t try to “clarify” further. A donkey’s a donkey, not a thoroughbred n’est-ce pas?
UPDATE 2 11 October 2011: A posting by “geordies lil bub” querying why selling finds mustn’t be mentioned: “why not dont some of you people want some dosh some wonga!!!!!!!!!!!” …………. and the official reply: “It’s the forum AUP, failiure to comply will get you carded or account suspended/ deactivated… you have been advised not to break any of the AUP.”
Жизни Сталин ! QED!
_____
More Heritage Action views on metal detecting and artefact collecting
The Heritage Journal 
75 comments
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26/07/2011 at 10:47
Peter Twinn
Nigel, I’m afraid that once again unfortunately you have some of your facts wrong. Firstly UKDN has been pro recording, and therefore pro PAS, after we made a concious decision to get away from the gutter politics that went on more than 5 years ago trying to be more constructive in building bridges rather than trying to burn them.
UKDN took the stance that the only way forward for the hobby (and for our membership) was to make sure that, as far as we could influence people, we would pursue the highest standards of recording, following the Code of Practice for Responsible Detecting as set out by the CBA et al. No one has been thrown off of UKDN because of what they believe, we have many debates whereby some members don’t always agree with the stance we have taken, so if anyone leaves UKDN it will because they have continued to break the Acceptable User Policy. There is certainly not any heavy moderation as you suggest, we tend to have no need for that these days.
As far as the ‘closed forum’ goes that is the case with many websites these days, UKDN is owned by Brian and Mo Cross, and run by a team of over 20 volunteers, some of UKDN is open to the public, but also available to join by use of a username and a password. Only those who have been banned in the past are stopped from joining.
Secondly, as far as the selling of artefacts is concerned, we have made our position very clear, in that we do not support the selling of finds. UKDN does not want to be seen to be any part of this side of the hobby, not because we have anything to hide, but because that is the business of individuals and the agreements they have with the landowners. Many of our members either don’t sell their finds (and are allowed to keep them with the landowners permission) or in many instances they give them back to the landowners or they donate them to museums where applicable.
Quote: “It’s a misrepresentation so crass as to be little short of theft and aiding people to commit it en masse is not something that the responsible elements of the metal detecting community should be doing.”
Well actually your comment is a total misrepresentation of what we’re trying to do in placing the information that finds can offer above the idea of ‘profit from heritage!’
May I suggest that next time, as I am a member of your site, that you try and get it from the horses mouth so-to-speak rather than like much of the gutter press in this country try and make something up because you disagree with our approach, or that you’re having a quite day for news and so just construct something up that you assume is the truth. Something you can be rather good at.
We’re well aware that what we do will never suffice for either yourself or Paul, but hey ho, at least we’re doing something constructive toward pointing people who use a metal detector
Peter Twinn
UKDN Admin.
26/07/2011 at 10:53
Peter Twinn
Sorry the last line was somehow omitted Nigel. It should read:
We’re well aware that what we do will never suffice for either yourself or Paul, but hey ho, at least we’re doing something constructive toward pointing people who use a metal detector in the right direction. Until the law changes people are free to buy a detector and go out to use them as long as they have permission to be on the land they’re detecting.
Regards
Peter
26/07/2011 at 12:10
Nigel
Peter,
As you know I respect many of your views. How could I not when so many of them are identical to mine and Paul’s? The one thing I fundamentally disagree with though is spinning ruffians as responsible people for the sake of friendship or hobby unity. They aren’t.
Our article is not factually wrong or unfair. For example –
You say
“Firstly UKDN has been pro recording, and therefore pro PAS, after we made a concious decision to get away from the gutter politics that went on more than 5 years ago trying to be more constructive in building bridges rather than trying to burn them. UKDN took the stance that the only way forward for the hobby (and for our membership) was to make sure that, as far as we could influence people, we would pursue the highest standards of recording, following the Code of Practice for Responsible Detecting as set out by the CBA et al”
And we said
“The problem is it used to harbour lots of anti-PAS sentiment but a few years back it suddenly flip-flopped “for hobby survival purposes” and is now ostensibly very pro-PAS and pro-recording.”
… which is the same, but less spun and more succinct. Incidentally, you make it sound like UKDN decided to get away from “gutter politics” whereas what it decided to get away from was itself. Remember how it stayed up all night writing an alternative Code to enable its members to wriggle out of the official one – that it now promotes so prominently? How awful and guttery was that? And all to please the bottom end of the hobby. Our account was perfectly fair Peter.
You say –
“No one has been thrown off of UKDN because of what they believe, we have many debates whereby some members don’t always agree with the stance we have taken, so if anyone leaves UKDN it will because they have continued to break the Acceptable User Policy.”
Ummm, I think that’s the same as what we said – “Lots of people have been thrown off the forum over the years for saying the “wrong” thing”! I rather think there is an army of disgruntled UKDN ejectees out there who will back Heritage Action on that point, not you!
You say
“Secondly, as far as the selling of artefacts is concerned, we have made our position very clear, in that we do not support the selling of finds. UKDN does not want to be seen to be any part of this side of the hobby, not because we have anything to hide, but because that is the business of individuals”
But it’s not the business of individuals is it Peter? You, I and every archaeologist profoundly disagree with it because it leads to societal damage, yes? UKDN should be AGAINST it not telling its users not to mention it. Yet your Site Moderator, treasurehunterste, has clarified the thinking behind it in entirely different terms:
“It doesn’t stop the sale of coins on Ebay. It doesn’t even go close, but what we are saying is that UKDN is not a place to discuss the sale, or encourage detectorists to sell finds. Now of course everyone’s circumstances are different, and there may be occasions when detectorists have no choice. In which case providing they have been recorded, and any agreements with land owners adhered too, that is fine. Just discuss it elsewhere.”
“there may be occasions when detectorists have no choice”!!!
How outrageous, there are none! What he is actually doing, knowingly or not, is acting as an apologist for wrongdoing – and signalling that you can still use UKDN even if you do wrong. Which is wrong.
“providing they have been recorded, and any agreements with land owners adhered too, that is fine”
No it’s not fine – as you and I both know very well Peter. Why can’t you get UKDN to say so?
Please don’t tell me I make things up. I know a thing or two about detecting and detectorists and I doubt you could get a Rizzla paper between my views on how the activity ought to be conducted and yours and PAS’s. The only difference is that I’m the only one that doesn’t feel severely constrained in what they say publicly. And that’s the tragedy as it leaves the field wide open for the ruffians to act as they do. Only Swift and Barford are complaining so it must be fine.
26/07/2011 at 13:45
Paul Barford
well, I’d like to ask Pete and Diamond and all the rest, what is perceived to be WRONG with selling finds? Metal detecting is about collecting, isn’t it? If you collect stamps and buy an old collection for the Penny Red plate numbers, but you’ve already got several Penny Blacks, what is the problem with selling the duplicates? If people were talking about it on your forum before, it seems it is a natural topic of discussion among collectors of all types.
Selling archaeological finds is not in itself illegal. When you get a treasure reward that is in essence what you are doing. So why is it discussed in the hobby magazines (Searcher, Treasure hunter, which you can buy in WHSmiths) but not on your forum?
It seems to me the whole reason for this new rule is it is bad publicity, makes it difficult to get over a certain picture of the hobby. While I think it is good that artefact hunters and collectors are concerned about their image, I would prefer this to result in them changing their practices rather than just avoid talking about certain of them where people can see. I am of the firm belief that ignoring a problem (pretending it does not exist) will not make it go away.
26/07/2011 at 15:51
Peter Twinn
Paul I thought I made it quite clear, I personally don’t collect or sell finds, but for those who do I see no issue in selling finds if they have first recorded them with the PAS. What happens to a find once it is recorded is a matter of contract between the finder and the landowner.
After all what do you propose happens to all these finds? There is no room left in the museums for a whole array of finds let alone small metal finds, so what’s your answer to that issue, I’m sure you’ll both have one?
UKDN changed when we all those, who are in the main anti PAS, to leave the site. This allowed us to make clear our mission statement which is published at the back of each of our on-line magazines. UKDN felt there was a clear need to make a stand against the anti PAS rhetoric, and indeed to show some positive support at a time when the PAS was under review and in danger of be scuppered by Rear Admiral Claire!
What would you have preferred, an unbridled hobby with no real means of allowing it to show its better side!
The selling of finds has always been around, even before metal detecting was a glint in any-one’s eye, though once again it’s a side of the hobby that is in my humble opinion an issue that needs dealing with. As stated UKDN does not feel it can support the selling of finds on the forum because that is the business of the individuals and the landowners. That means of course that there is a fair smattering of detectorist who collect, some who do not and many that donate, but then we’ve all know that the membership of our forum is from a broad church with many varied approaches to the handling and disposal of finds. We’ve never hidden that fact, because it is precisely that, a fact. What we have aimed to do is educate and discuss these issues,believing that many will see that the responsible way is the right one for both the information that artefact’s and coins can give, but also to bring about a responsible hobby.
Whilst material is found in the ground and places like EBay exist alongside dealers and auction houses there is always going to be a proportion who will chase the money aspect of metal detecting. Personally I do not subscribe to that and neither does UKDN in the way it sets out its policies and guidelines for members. Other than frisking them when they come off the fields I don’t see that there is any other way to deal with this issue other than a total ban on metal detecting which we all know will only affect the decent law abiding recording detectorist in the main.
26/07/2011 at 21:35
Paul Barford
I am sure we are all very grateful for the Mission Statement. The point is though that the PAS does not condemn sales of finds (or has not yet anyway), so I am still left wondering why have a forum which pretends it does not go on?
> What would you have preferred, an unbridled hobby with no real means of allowing it to show its better side[?]<
I'd prefer a hobby that does not have to pretend it is something other than what it is. That is just misleading the public who are the major stakeholder in what artefact hunters hunt down, dig up and do something-or-other with.
Even if you do not sell it, when you lot all die (or the landowner) where does it ACTUALLY go?
You still have not really answered the question of why UKDN has a policy of not DISCUSSING sales of finds which as you say goes on and we are all agreed is perfectly legal if certain conditions are fulfilled. Have you?
So I think criticism of Heritage Action for drawing attention to this is a bit out of place.
(I am not speaking for them, but you ask what to do with it, I'd say leave it in the ground, and please don't give me all that UKDFD artificial fertiliser etc nonsense),
27/07/2011 at 10:27
Peter Twinn
Paul I couldn’t possibly speak for the PAS, Roger or Michael are the one’s to contact for that, but I can say that UKDN does not promote the selling of finds because we want to play no part in that side of the hobby.
UKDN is specifically set up to allow metal detectorist from all walks of life to join a forum where they can learn everything there is to know about responsible metal detecting in the UK, specifically England and Wales. The cornerstone to the site is allowing both debate about all sorts of issue, which have included the selling of finds, or what to do with your finds upon people’s demise. We’re currently putting together a down-loadable document to deal with this very issue.
UKDN has for the past five years maintained a high level of education for newbies joining the hobby or the site, that will continue covering all aspects of detecting. What we did not want to do is have any kind of focus on the selling of finds as some were inclined to do. We have found that some members were using the identification of their finds, by our finds advisers team, going straight away to EBay using the exact same words that our Finds Adviser’s has written. This is not what UKDN is about so we acted immediately to stop the practice. UKDN does not and indeed has never dealt with the valuation of finds since its start some 9 years ago. There are a 1001 places people can go to on the web, or a 1001 books they can buy to value their own finds, but we will have no part in that, unlike other sites you can visit.
Metal detecting has its failings, but UKDN has, and does try to address some of these issues, we don’t see ourselves as anything other than a group of people trying to bring about some best practice, which of course will not suit all, but will reach some. We have found that the carrot, not the stick has produced the best results, and long may that continue as far as we’re concerned.
27/07/2011 at 11:16
Nigel
I’m afraid no amount of “contextualising” can make the UKDN exhortation “just discuss it elsewhere” look like anything other than “misleading the public by omission”. That’s because that’s exactly the effect the rule has.
27/07/2011 at 16:13
Paul Barford
And I am sorry to keep coming back to the same point, but you still have not answered the question, what is “wrong” with discussing selling finds when it is perfectly legal and above-board, and is what people do?
There are many hobbies which produce things people will pay money for (apiary, crochet, watercolour painting, rocks and minerals, meteorites, bonsai, militaria collecting, etc etc) where swaps and sales are part of the social life of the hobby, integrating the group, giving members access to items to further their hobby. You still have not answered the question why “that side of the hobby”, your hobby, is not being discussed on your forum.
Is there nobody else from UKDN who can answer this question if you cannot? Why are they leaving you out on a limb?
14/01/2012 at 06:29
Whites Detectors Information
Quick question Does anyone know anyone who has tried any of the EXcelerator search coil’s instead of the Stock Whites Metal Detector coil? If so do they help you find more quality targets? or is that just Marketing hype?
Thanks
14/01/2012 at 06:56
heritageaction
Yes, it has a phenomenal wreck quotient. Here’s a Field Test (you may need to use an online translator) http://cookit.e2bn.org/library/1242746043/peterborough_chronicle22jpg.original.jpg
12/04/2012 at 13:20
Paul Barford
I see my question is not going to get an answer. I wonder why it is apparently so difficult for “metal detectorists” to articulate what the problem is.
10/06/2012 at 14:37
dave
uk detector net was founded by brian and mo. their son is an antiques dealer who regularly buys and sells detector finds. this is why they dont want anything mentioned regarding buying and selling of finds.
05/07/2012 at 17:42
James Pincher
FACT
The British Museum have never had a problem in acquiring metal detector finds even those of national importance regardless if the landowner has been informed or not: FACT, they legitiamise the reason for purchase even from a dealer who has acquired the object and if they are aware of the location will take care not to inform the landowner:FACT. The rules say that any item of treasure must go through an inquest, Bulshit, as long as they acquire the objact they are not interested, they have no problem with the back door.
PASS. beats me
JIM PINCHER
05/07/2012 at 18:36
heritageaction
!!!
Presumably you’ll have glib reasons why you haven’t provided a shred of evidence?
01/01/2013 at 17:56
aaron c-king
Hi, as I see it, detectorists are the people who find historical artifacts that other wise wouldn’t be found due to the lack of time and resources provided by archiologists. Most detecting clubs and groups stick to a code of conduct in which they are required to record any finds of historical value. As long as finds are recorded I believe it is fine to sell finds to other detectorists or private collectors. Ask your self which is better recorded finds and then sell to someone who will treasure the item or have it decompose in the ground and not know of its existence? Which is better knowledge or ignorance? If someone has a contract with a land owner who wants to sell anything found on there land surely its better to sell it as it is to preserve history or give it to the land owner to sell as scrap? I think your looking at it the wrong way and are tangled up in your own beliefs. So stop being slanderous against the detectorists who do this hobby to help further the knowledge of our history and not for personal gain.
01/01/2013 at 18:25
heritageaction
“Most detecting clubs and groups stick to a code of conduct in which they are required to record any finds of historical value”.
That is total fiction. They require adherence to the NCMD Code which doesn’t require Members to record their finds. Farmers are told otherwise, but not here they won’t be.
02/01/2013 at 17:22
J S (@juamei)
” Ask your self which is better recorded finds and then sell to someone who will treasure the item or have it decompose in the ground and not know of its existence? ”
How about recording and then give it to a museum?
03/01/2013 at 12:07
Pat
Goodness me, how many times have there been metal detectorists coming here, making out they’re virtuous only to disappear in a puff of smoke the moment handing their finds over to the real owners is suggested!
This one has the nerve to say ” So stop being slanderous against the detectorists who do this hobby to help further the knowledge of our history and not for personal gain.”
If it’s not for personal gain how come they have personal collections?! (Exit guilty party, confused).
13/01/2013 at 12:37
Alun
So many negatives and not one positive in the whole discussion. I have a collection which i have also registered EVERY item that i have. ALL of which have been duly noted and recorded. All of my finds i have shown to the local land owner, and offered him the choice of items which do not require notification.
As for selling your finds for personal profit then only if they are valued by the coroner and bought by the authorities, (which is split 50 50 with the land owner). I am disappointed to see tit for tat bickering like children here, you will always get “bad apples” in every barrel but do not tar all detectors as villains. I have donated FREE many of my finds which are of local interest and not of National importance to my local authorities and museum and will still keep doing so.
Come on people support the ones who want to help and not disagree for the sake of it.
13/01/2013 at 13:04
heritageaction
“you will always get “bad apples” in every barrel but do not tar all detectors as villains.”
No, we’re not up for being impressed by such easy and well-won platitudes, even if farmers easily are. You might be a saint (and of the hundreds of detectorists that have written to us every single one has claimed to be just that) but the plain truth is most detectorists don’t report most of their finds to PAS, as PAS will confirm. If ever that changes so will the level of criticism. At present most of them are an absolute disgrace.
13/01/2013 at 20:10
Alun
Impressing people I am not in that category, but climb down off your horse and realise that whatever your views are many will not agree, but with your attitudes to people wanting to help have you ever stopped and thought why detectors cant be bothered if they are met with your attitudes.
So glad that in my area PAS are well respected and helped.
End of conversation as far as i am concerned, i can well imagine the reply but i have better things to get on with.
As far as the whites coil is concerned my friend, I am using one at present, great so far, but lets see next week on a well rubbished site.
13/01/2013 at 20:19
heritageaction
You make the point perfectly. “Glad that in my area PAS are well respected and helped” but not a word about the fact most detectorists don’t report most of their finds and are therefore a disgrace!
Words are cheap.
16/01/2013 at 17:10
Alun
LOL not worth a response to that one. Happy days and happy hunting fellow detectorists
16/01/2013 at 17:20
heritageaction
“LOL not worth a response to that one.”
That might work as a cover for having no answer on a detectorists’ forum but not here. So let us say it once more:
Not a word about the fact most detectorists don’t report most of their finds and are therefore a disgrace!
12/02/2013 at 18:43
ron_enjoys_his_hobby
I report my finds to PAS and so do all my colleague detectorists. Heritageaction seems to be on a blinkered mission of hate for some twisted imaginary reason. I feel obliged to observe that most of what we find would, if acquired by a museum, disappear from public view forever. I know that I give people much pleasure when I show them what I have saved from the plough and chemicals. These items would otherwise be seen by nobody. As the majority of finds are so common and mundane, they would never be displayed or enjoyed otherwise. Shame on you for for your vitriolic selfishness.
12/02/2013 at 18:43
kopparberg
i am fairly new to this hobby been interested in history most of my life one way or another .recently formed a new detecting club which we promote all members to record finds thru PAS .which keeps the flo busy at our meetings .i for one record all my finds . never sold any for that matter would not want to certainly would’nt want to give it to a bunch of self righteous people like you.what happens to it is between me and the land owner. but as i see it there is no legal requirement to record finds only treasure , which if proven is like selling your finds anyway. what really makes me mad is you self righteous archaeologists who think that they have the god given right to slander all detectorists as near enough criminals .a/ they are not doing anything wrong if the land owners give the permission to search the land . just people like you lot banging on about bad detectorists only adds fuel to people not recording
12/02/2013 at 20:04
Pat
Ron:
Oh dear.
Look: most detectorists don’t report most of what they find and are therefore antisocial, selfish and an absolute disgrace. When that is not the case, come back and talk to us, but not until. You are grumbling at the wrong people.
12/02/2013 at 20:12
heritageaction
Kopparberg: see Pat’s reply to Ron.
12/02/2013 at 20:26
kopparberg
hi i totally agree with you on the the ones that dont record and nighthawk and even dayhawk they do the hobby no good at all .i like to think that by recording even on rallies. i show the farmers/landowners everything i find as i do the flo .i would hate for the day to come when we could not go out .which i think is what you would like to happen ,but think of the history and find spots that have been found and recorded by the responsible detectorists . love them or hate them but they have contributed to the history of this country
12/02/2013 at 20:36
heritageaction
“hi i totally agree with you on the the ones that dont record”
Then why are you wasting your time here? Go and sort them out, furiously, don’t waste another minute of your time telling us what a fine fellow YOU are (we’re unimpressed about that anyway – there are tens of thousands of amateur archaeologists that act in a much better way than any detectorist. You could always become one of those and be immune from any criticism at all).
12/02/2013 at 21:49
kopparberg
really like sticking a pick axe in richard 111 head
13/02/2013 at 05:20
Pat
“really like sticking a pick axe in richard 111 head”
Pointless remarks like that might serve as a means to avoid confronting the fact that “most detectorists don’t report most of their finds” (after 15 yeas of the taxpayer begging them to) on a detecting forum, but not here.
13/02/2013 at 07:10
ron_enjoys_his_hobby
It seems that Pat/Heritageaction is just sporting with us and may well be a detectorist himself. There is no logical argument to be had here. Goodbye
13/02/2013 at 07:35
heritageaction
Again:
Pointless remarks like that might serve as a means to avoid confronting the fact that “most detectorists don’t report most of their finds” (after 15 yeas of the taxpayer begging them to) on a detecting forum, but not here.
Come back when a majority of your colleagues aren’t a disgrace.
BTW, you are the Nth detectorist to exit when confronted with the above reality. We’ve learned that citing it is a highly effective way to instantly get them to leave.
13/02/2013 at 09:54
Ten2four
“just people like you lot banging on about bad detectorists only adds fuel to people not recording”
OMG! So Heritage Action criticising them is what makes them act badly!
Are these people all simpletons?
Keep it up HA, they haven’t a leg to stand on.
Tim
13/02/2013 at 12:45
kopparberg
if i am right as a taxpayer i pay your wages pity we could’nt all just stop the payments reaching you .it really is a waste of time trying to talk to bitter twisted people like the few on here. i vote to stop paying your wages
13/02/2013 at 12:54
kopparberg
i still find it amazing that you keep on about recording finds .in english law there is no legal requirement to do so .only treasure end of story
13/02/2013 at 14:19
heritageaction
You don’t pay our wages.
As for “there is no legal requirement to record finds” you’ve put your finger on why most detectorists deserve contempt. “It’s legal innit so sod the moral imperative”.
13/02/2013 at 16:20
kopparberg
no one deserves contempt it is only your view and a few other self righteous people on here and as a tax payer that you have quoted have for 15 years been asking people to record i don’t think i have ever been asked so who the heck are you speaking for
13/02/2013 at 16:36
Ten2four
“you have quoted have for 15 years been asking people to record i don’t think i have ever been asked so who the heck are you speaking for”
So you haven’t even heard of PAS?!!!!!
It’s getting worse by the minute.
13/02/2013 at 17:13
Nightsoil
I wonder how many Archaeologists use and enjoy metal detecting?
13/02/2013 at 17:16
heritageaction
Ever seen a picture of one? (Other than using one for the common good in accordance with the EH and IfA professional guidelines that is). Thought not.
13/02/2013 at 17:25
kopparberg
i have recorded every find i have ever made through andrew brown flo for suffolk .as i will do every time i go out . even recorded my finds on the wiltshire dig foxham you lot seem to hate .great part of the country . i just dont like the way you people seem to preach its your way or ebvery body else are criminals when they have’nt even broke the law
13/02/2013 at 17:52
kopparberg
you calling me a numpty which i do not take kindly to .if you want to make it personal them carry and i will make sure i sue you. as i have stated at the moment it is down to the individual whether they want to record or not and i do not think it is down to you to make that decision for them ,because at the end of the day this is a free country and folks died to keep it that way. rightly or in your case wrongly it is still down to the person what they do. all the preaching will not change what they do at all. it is not all down to detectorists as some land owners do not want finds recorded unless its treasure and at the end of the day you need their permission to record and that is a fact believe it or not
13/02/2013 at 18:00
heritageaction
Kopparberg the more you say the deeper the hole you dig for yourself. You say “it is not all down to detectorists as some land owners do not want finds recorded” but unfortunately for you the official PAS advice (that you reckon you keep to) is not to metal detect in those circumstances!!
And on that note….
13/02/2013 at 18:10
kopparberg
i don,t happen to detect sites that do not allow you to record i was only making a point .and as it happens i like to dig holes and get artifacts out. at the end of the day i don’t really care what you or your friends /colleagues think. i know i do it by the book and will continue to do so . but it is no point trying to make a point it is not all down to bad detectorists as their are a lot of good detectorists out there being labeled as bad by the few on here
13/02/2013 at 18:16
heritageaction
You aren’t making a point at all because any detectorist who detects a site where the owner does not want finds recorded is acting against the public interest and shouldn’t be doing it.
So when you say “it is not all down to detectorists” you are completely wrong. It is.
13/02/2013 at 18:23
ron_enjoys_his_hobby
I had said goodbye and did not intent to post again on this ridiculous hate forum but I need to record that this extremely biased obsession of yours seems to border on the insane, heritage action ( proper name or ashamed to publish it ? ) Can you not find anything useful or interesting to do with your time instead of attacking a body of people who in the main are mature, law abiding and honest? Get a real life and try to be of benefit to the real world HA for the sake of your sanity. Goodbye for the last time and I’m deleting my notification preferences.
signed, Ron Leake of Andover
13/02/2013 at 18:26
kopparberg
against public interest so you say have you ever surveyed the public to find out .as if you have i never had a vote. you only want detecting banned admit it so history can be left in the ground to rot
13/02/2013 at 18:32
heritageaction
Well Ron, your question “Can you not find anything useful or interesting to do with your time” might equally be directed to a man who, instead of joining an amateur archaeology group and working for the common good, spends his life listening to beeps to amass objects for his own benefit and then tries to convince people he does it for their benefit!
13/02/2013 at 18:39
heritageaction
“have you ever surveyed the public to find out”
We don’t need to. Nor do you. All you have to do is ask PAS, CBA, EH, AOLGO, NUF, DEFRA, DCMS, IfA or any group of informed or educated professionals and they’ll tell you.
It really is time you stopped these desperate attempts to justify what can’t be.
13/02/2013 at 18:58
kopparberg
this is a free world and i am entitled to an opinion as you and certainly don’t think you are right . i had an opinion of so called archaeologists before this and all that went out the window as i now think you are a self opinionated bunch of baffoons . who gave you the right to try to degrade a part of the english public . roll on the revolution
13/02/2013 at 19:02
Ten2four
But they’re not archaeologists so who do you think here looks like a baffoon? (Repeatedly!)
13/02/2013 at 19:13
kopparberg
its pointless as you can only see your self inflated views just to try and justified what you are apparently getting paid public money for .
13/02/2013 at 19:21
Ten2four
This is the THIRD time:
THEY ARE NOT GETTING PAID PUBLIC MONEY AND THEY ARE NOT ARCHAEOLOGISTS!
13/02/2013 at 19:46
kopparberg
ok then if they are not getting paid public money what right have they got to push there views on the british public who wish to go metal detecting on land which they will have permission to go on and not record if they do not want to as this is not a criminal act and perfectly legal at the moment . i wonder how many of you have a criminal record on here as in parking tickets or speeding fines etc which would then make you the criminals . i for know that i have not got a ticket of any kind and live my life by the rules of society which is all some detectorists are doing . morla or not i don’t think it is for you to decide you are not in public office
13/02/2013 at 20:00
Ten2four
“i don’t think it is for you to decide you are not in public office”
But those that are in public office say detectorists should record yet most detectorists still don’t! So they ignore the wishes of everybody. And you’re trying to defend them.
13/02/2013 at 21:27
kopparberg
ok quote 2011 83% of pas finds and 92% of treasure finds where recorded by metal detectorists this from the pas itself out of 810,000 finds recorded on the pas data base and we dont record
13/02/2013 at 21:30
heritageaction
That’s right, most of you don’t.
13/02/2013 at 21:33
kopparberg
i realy dont belive that as 83% of all findsand 92% of treasure is one hell of a lot of recording by detectorists that you cannot get away from
14/02/2013 at 05:09
Pat
“I really don’t believe that”
In that case I think we’ll call a halt. If you “don’t believe” the realities that PAS themselves have stated then it’s clear it’s just another instance of not wanting to believe something and wasting everyone’s time.
I suggest you write to PAS and ask them if most artefact hunters report most of their finds or not. I’m sure they’ll tell you the truth and equally sure you’ll tell them you don’t believe them and post an endless series of misinformed and irrational or abusive comments to them. Lucky them.
14/02/2013 at 13:13
Alan S.
Hi Kopparberg. I’ve read through all these comments, and Pat is right – it’s like talking to a brick wall. Quite simply, quoting percentage figures in the way you have is meaningless. 92% of not much still doesn’t add up to a pile of beans. Take Pat’s advice ans speak to the PAS or the CBA, then take a look at http://www.heritageaction.org.uk/erosioncounter/ which is an honest attempt at truly quantifying the problem. Even if there are some detectorists who report *everything*, they are vastly outnumbered by those that don’t, and that can only damage the finite resource that is heritage that belongs to us all.
15/02/2013 at 13:48
TimLin
Hey Heritage Action do you think this Kopparberg who says he has recorded every find he has ever made is the same Kopparberg who recently wrote, on a thread about whether the PAS was anti detecting:
“i know of a metal detectorist that has had land taken away from him because of the finds he was making on it and reporting them to the PAS. he is a member of a club that i am in”?
Or could it be a different Kopparberg, they certainly sound different.
15/02/2013 at 13:53
heritageaction
Well it’s a very common name, it’s probably another Kopparberg.
Unless of course he’s yet another metal detectorist who says stuff in public and other stuff on detecting forums. Who knows? 😉
19/02/2013 at 22:04
m hason
Are people really out there detecting just for posterity? No treasure hunting spirit or thoughts of a golden find? Must be the only country in the world were people are looking for treasure with such morality and benevolence,
Makes me want feel sorry for the landed gentry and knobs,, who, lord it over the nation. Was thinking of taking this up as a hobby but for the adventure and possible rewards in finding something of value or interest. ItS not that i don`t think history to be important it surely is, but people are people and they will exploit what they find. Its sad to think that people still think the crown and Government protect and share our heritage, try taking a walk around this country and go were you want to go, including so called public building palaces etc see how you get on. Ever seen the whole of the art collection in Buckingham palace that is looked after for a thankful nation? Nor me, any idea whats there or whats not there?
So if you find it no matter what get paid, you and me will be gone one day and we will not be remembered in history but what you fin will perhaps, and if it aint you collecting they someone will. A conscience is nice but business is business. Although you wont agree just think of this next time you see the Elgin marbles etc. We are a nation whos wealth was founded by pirates, its in our blood or in our heritage….!
20/02/2013 at 04:40
heritageaction
“A conscience is nice but business is business.”
Fortunately there is plenty of evidence that there are many people that see the world differently.
28/06/2014 at 14:18
ron_enjoys_his_hobby
What a load of crap. Stating over and over that ‘most detectorists don’t record most of their finds’ is not only unsubstantiated, it is because most finds are silver foil, aluminium cans, modern coins, nails horseshoes or other similar rubbish that the FLO would laugh at if they were presented to them. Also the majority of detector finds are made in the top six inches of ploughsoil so are not in stratified contexts.
28/06/2014 at 14:52
Packwood
No. The statement is not about silver paper but about recordable finds, as defined by PAS,
As for your denial, you imply you witness what 10K detectorists do in private, which you clearly don’t.
Our own assertion on the other hand is based on statistics and surveys by PAS, CBA, archaeologists, EH and detectorists. Why is that “crap”? (FYI not all detectorists think any such thing).
As for most finds being in ploughsoil, how does that make not reporting them acceptable?
28/06/2014 at 17:25
ron_enjoys_his_hobby
I do, as do most detectorists that I know, report all recordable ploughsoil finds. Is your username the pretentious ‘Heritageaction’ or are you ‘Packwood’? I have better things to do than engage in childish repatee with n obviously ignorant bigot. Goodbye.
28/06/2014 at 17:37
Pat
“I do, as do most detectorists that I know, report all recordable ploughsoil finds.”
Of course you do, but all rational statistical evidence shows most don’t. The fact you resort to abuse doesn’t make it otherwise.
27/07/2014 at 22:47
John West
Dont waste your breathe or typing skills on this bunch of twisted blinkered wankers. You could give all your finds to a museum and they still would call foul.
Fuck off and die heritage action, barford and the rest of you syncapathic wankers………….Here endeth the lesson.
Im amazed at the timeline of responses, obviously all these heritage advocates are sat at home hovering over a keyboard rather thanactually doing something useful in a field. at least us detectorists are actually finding pieces of the past rather than belittling those that do
Pathetic wankers. Now post this you twisted fuck.
You know who I am and I will return to plague your shit sake of a site !!!
28/07/2014 at 03:42
heritageaction
Well argued, Professor.
05/08/2014 at 14:10
Lone Wolf
Well said John West…. I am sick of the jealous Heritageaction and arkies with their pious holier than thou attitudes. There have been many a tale of them who have been arrested for pilfering sites for their own collections. Nothing but mud slinging and slandering… I have even seen them turn up with metal detectors of their own to go around sites… after being vociferous against the hobby…Unless I am much mistaken, it is the freedom of the common man to use what technology he can and that is available, with the permission of the landowner to go and find what he can and wants…I myself put in several hours walking ploughed and uneven ground digging up all sorts of junk (which I recycle). You don’t see men who go out shooting pigeons, rabbits and pheasants on farmer’s land being slated for murder… nor being told what they should do with their kills. Just because modern technology is actually rendering the arkies knowledge and skill base a bit useless because any old jack can buy a metal detector and actually find things that put a bit of pottery (That Time Team can visualise a whole civilisation and when the bloke’s Mrs had a shit last) in the shade… and they don’t like it one little bit… Time to accept it English Heritage… you don’t control anyone, your attempts at bad press are actually a beacon to everyman thinking…blimey… I quite fancy doing a bit of detecting… because it is primeval… we humans are hunters… and in whatever form that comes… and so are you… but you are worried that your bit of pottery shard is being shown up by actual metalic dated objects… that have a bit of value due to the precious metal content… admit it, you are jealous, hypocritical and sadly… very childish and pedantic with it.
05/08/2014 at 14:44
heritageaction
Trouble is, we aren’t archaeologists. Which makes your whole posting nonsense.