As the parents of scouts we suspect you are more responsible, thoughtful and socially aware than average. Consequently we should like you to do a little research regarding the scout group metal detecting rally at Laverstoke Park, Hampshire that your youngsters may have recently attended.
You have a choice in the event of further invitations. Either you can believe a metal detecting club and a global detecting manufacturer (who financed the event and handed out prizes and goody bags) that artefact hunting is a fine thing to get young people interested in or you can heed what The Council for British Archaeology says :
“As long as it remains safe then it is better to leave the evidence for future generations to investigate with better techniques and with better-informed questions to ask. Usually, intervention is only justified if the evidence is at risk of being lost or damaged, through development, climate change, or agricultural practices. In this case, any excavation work has to be carried out carefully to ensure that we extract as many clues as possible not just about any objects that are found, but about the full circumstances of the way in which they were initially buried and any materials or evidence buried in association with them”.
Update: Here’s an account of scouts using metal detectors as part of a proper archaeological exercise designed to harvest knowledge for society not personal gain, which “helped them achieve their heritage badge”. (All parents should note the difference.)
_http://www.surreycomet.co.uk/news/9682626.Scouts_and_students_unearth_Kingston_s_past/
_____________________________________________________________
More Heritage Action views on metal detecting and artefact collecting
_____________________________________________________________
The Heritage Journal 
45 comments
13/10/2013 at 13:25
Pat
Looks like a good event. Well organised and it gives children an interest in history and makes the scout movement more interesting and engaging for youngsters.
[I’ve been asked to point out this is not the same Pat as the Heritage Action Pat, who has a different opinion – Ed.].
13/10/2013 at 16:31
DerekPatterson
I must say, speaking as an ex Cub Scout, that if any of my friends’ children express any interest in history or prehistory, I usually point them in the direction of the Young Archaeologist’s Club (YAC). The club has branches all around the country, and provides activities and education for children of all ages. The bramches are led by volunteers and qualified archaeologists who really know their stuff. And they’re backed by the Council for British Archaeology…
13/10/2013 at 16:46
heritageaction
Absolutely.The YAC is the way to go for any young person who wants to be involved in Archaeology – plus the CBA offers lots of other ways to do archaeology “properly” – http://new.archaeologyuk.org/participate
14/10/2013 at 12:08
melby
Good to ser the scout movement is still flourishing and moving with modern times.
14/10/2013 at 12:49
Nigel S
Running metal detecting events is hardly “moving with modern times”, quite the opposite. It’s a throw-back, being typically a middle aged or older pursuit and flying in the face of twenty first century conservation sentiment. In any case this event seems to have been a local aberration, not in line with scouting in general. There are no scouting awards or badges for metal detecting, which says it all.
14/10/2013 at 12:50
Paul Barford
While the US branch of the organization has a merit badge for archaeology. http://boyscouttrail.com/boy-scouts/meritbadges/archaeology.asp
in the list of suggested tasks, no mention of “metal detector” or “arrowhead collecting”. So why should the UK differ in approach?
14/10/2013 at 13:01
Nigel S
Well the only other involvement of British scouts with metal detecting rallies I can recall is that scouts served tea and buscuits at the Twinstead rally before a number of the detectorist-participants stole loads of gold coins and the police were called!
Scout HQ should clearly issue guidelines to local branches on this subject.
14/10/2013 at 16:18
Dobbs
With the ‘Time Team’ effect and the general move towards consumerist history, the times are indeed changing in terms of the publics perception of history as a form of entertainment and this involvement of the scouts is indicative of how history is seen to be something to be involved with on whatever level possible. Is it a good or a bad thing? well as an ex scout who learnt an awful lot of good skills and values, I personally think that as long as it is supervised properly, as was the case here, then it gets kids involved in real and engaging interests other than X Boxes and facebook which is no bad thing in my book.
14/10/2013 at 16:40
heritageaction
“as long as it is supervised properly, as was the case here”
No, metal detecting “supervised properly” would be an event designed and run by trained archaeologists in accordance with the guidelines laid out by English Heritage.
14/10/2013 at 17:05
Paul Barford
“awful lot of good skills and values”,
what “values” is taught by taking all the archaeological artefacts from a particular location without any particular method and adding them to a personal collection? Selfishness?
So sort of like doing the “Nature Observer’s badge” with an airgun and presenting a case of home-stuffed finches and warblers?
14/10/2013 at 17:14
Dobbs
Welcome to the modern world of the Nanny state. So scouts can’t use a metal detector unless there is an archaeologist present??. Just like Health and Safety is doing, you want to kill children’s ability to explore and enjoy life in an environment that is conducive to self achievement. It’s not as if they found the crown Jewels is it? It maddens me that we want to constantly put barriers in place, needless barriers, to children’s development. I suppose I should not take my children bug hunting just in case we injure a bug?
14/10/2013 at 18:40
heritageaction
So teaching children to approach Archaeology as a finite communal resource to be conserved and properly studied is to be avoided whereas encouraging them to grab it for their own benefit in a destructive fashion is good for their development?
Thank goodness neither CBA nor Scouts HQ agrees with you and very few educated parents will either, once they look into it!
14/10/2013 at 19:42
Dobbs
I would think it actually encourages children to have an interest in history and in the long term, perhaps then, they may seek a career in the heritage/history sector. My youngest already has an interest in history and often comes homes from playing outside with bits of pottery to show my husband, hoping for it to be something Roman (mostly Victorian pottery) so are we to chastise him for digging around to find pottery as part of his own self interest because he ‘might’ disturb archaeological layers? Real archaeology worthy of study is being destroyed on an industrial scale day in day out as part of development and urban sprawl so kids finding a few random coins is hardly at the top of the hierarchy of loss is it? As for educated parents, my Husband is a Research Chemist and I have a PHD in Political science so certainly not uneducated. We are just enlightened and able to form our own reasoned opinions.
14/10/2013 at 19:59
heritageaction
We shall have to disagree about whether a destructive hobby is a good introduction to Archaeology. In our view YAC is far more suitable. (Having studied metal detecting for many years I would certainly not encourage a youngster to go anywhere near a metal detecting rally).
14/10/2013 at 20:46
Paul Barford
I think Mrs Dobbs is getting confused about the aims of an artefact hunting rally. A kid finding something loose and out of interest picking it up (empty bird eggshells under a nest, Daimler-Benz car fender logo by the roadside) and then maybe finding out more about it from a book etc. is doing something quite different from a kid who goes out bird-nesting (egg collecting) or levering them off the cars. I cannot see why an educated person with a PhD would find that concept so difficult to understand.
15/10/2013 at 10:16
heritageaction
See the update, which may make it clearer.
15/10/2013 at 16:36
Daryl K
I wonder if Jody Schechkter was given the finds at the end of the day as the rightful owner of the finds?
15/10/2013 at 17:43
heritageaction
Tenderly delivered, in full, by a skein of porcine aviators (as happens at the end of every detecting rally).
15/10/2013 at 17:51
Daryl K
I see Clare Scheckter has invited back for the same next year so the Schechkters seemed pleased with the whole affair…hmmmmm
Mind you, I see the Scouts scarpered off with a load of tent pegs they straightened!!
15/10/2013 at 18:21
Mr. Christopher Strickland
I think both sides of this argument are worthy of merit on some points. I agree that archaeology or other activity that disturbs the ground on a known or suspected historic or prehistoric site is something that should be supervised by a specialist or at least someone who understands the delicate balance of finding an artifact in context with other artifacts to provide a more accurate and complete “picture” of what happened, when and where. IT IS IMPORTANT TO LEAVE THINGS IN SITU BECAUSE IF THEY ARE DISTURBED THEN IT DISTORTS THE PERCEPTION OF WHAT HAPPENED HISTORICALLY ON THE SITE. It is like removing pieces of a jigsaw puzzle that makes it harder to reconstruct the image. Understand?
I have been guilty of this in my younger years, and felt great regret for having disturbed a site in another country in order to secure a few shards of ancient pottery(2800+ years old) for myself. At the time the site was overgrown and abandoned, uncared for, almost forgotten and untouched for hundreds of years. the locals used it to graze their sheep. There was so much history there…a whole bronze age fortified settlement! Some of the walls, ramparts and a stone-lined well were still intact. I was amazed and excited to see such a place up close and see the masons alignment marks upon the cornerstones, and broken oil lamps and amphorae on the ground all around the ruins. I thought that no one would miss a few shards of pottery from an amphora that were lying on the surface.
Now, a dig is underway on that site before it is destroyed by encroaching development. Hopefully it can be saved before it is looted by treasure hunters and overzealous enthusiasts. The archaeologists on site complain that the site I mention has been picked over through the years by locals and tourists alike, making the finds incomplete and the information based upon artifacts more limited so it takes longer to reconstruct what their culture and life was like.
On the other side of the argument from a parents POV, I also understand and appreciate that children are the next inheritors of our world,and the legacy left by our ancestors throughout history. They have a right to know about the history of our world and where they have come from. It is a privilege to be able to see history unearthed on a proper dig site, or to help contribute to the efforts of a team that is trying to unravel a mystery through uncovering artifacts,human remains and structures. I have been on a few digs and it was always fascinating and it helped me develop a more reverent attitude toward the things that are left behind by those who went before us. Children should absolutely be encouraged and allowed to take part in activities that increase their knowledge and awareness of the people, animals, places, religious and cultural objects that are part of a world that passed away in order to make room for this one. It is such a valuable way to learn so many different things…not just about “loot” and the golden goodies…but also about the time and effort that were required to make objects of beauty with more primitive technology that what we have today. While I do not agree with people randomly wandering around with detectors and view it is a form of looting or tomb robbing…I think it is like any other tool if used improperly or in the wrong hands. I think there is room for metal detecting, and gatherings so long as it is done on a site that is already understood and documented and in a manner that respects the site and the fact that this is a treasure for all of us to benefit from and not a scavenger hunt for monetary gain. For example, I record any finds I make and declare them to my county council, and if they are not rare or treasure I am allowed to keep them with the blessing of the authorities. That is the way I do it, and it satisfies everyone involved. When I take them to a park, SSSI, listed building, EH site or NT site I teach my kids to be responsible and in those special places they are only allowed to look or sometimes touch but never to remove something, pick something, cause damage, etc. so that everyone else who comes after us can see what we saw and love it like we do.
17/10/2013 at 03:32
heritageaction
We have received various postings saying this event was justified. We won’t be providing a platform for such views – which amount to: “encouraging the children of Britain to do what is seen as criminal elsewhere is fine”.
We don’t think it is.
17/10/2013 at 08:37
melby
It does illustrate the publics feelings on the matter. Well done for raising it.
17/10/2013 at 08:53
heritageaction
If we don’t, who will? It shouldn’t be left to the likes of us, but it is.
17/10/2013 at 11:36
heritageaction
To repeat (since some people don’t appear to understand) – no, we won’t be providing a platform for such views and no we don’t object to the use of detectors in structured archaeological surveys that are entirely for communal benefit. But taking is taking and it won’t be whitewashed here…
17/10/2013 at 13:17
Bremen
“If we don’t, who will? It shouldn’t be left to the likes of us, but it is”
Sadly, isn’t that an admittance of a lone voice amongst the throng?
17/10/2013 at 13:30
heritageaction
Of course! But not a lone opinion. Talk to archaeologists in private.
17/10/2013 at 13:40
Bremen
Opinions don’t carry or matter unless they are voiced so I’m not sure you should be admitting to being a lone voice??
17/10/2013 at 14:00
heritageaction
Hardly! Hundreds of thousands of archaeologists throughout the world are perfectly open in their view that the activity should be strictly regulated as an absolute minimum. The fact British archaeologists are silent shouldn’t be taken as evidence most of them don’t think exactly the same. (They wouldn’t be archaeologists if they didn’t).
17/10/2013 at 14:08
Bremen
But nothing is changing in the UK. If anything, and alarmingly, there seems to be growth in treasure hunting and the public are lapping it up. Why are UK archaeologists silent on the subject? Why do they get involved in treasure hunting TV programmes?
17/10/2013 at 14:35
heritageaction
Uniquely, Britain has created a quango whose continuance depends upon supporting metal detecting and the one thing that characterises quangos is their survival instinct!
That’s the short version. A longer version is here! …………..
17/10/2013 at 14:36
Paul Barford
“An ex-policeman has said there wasn’t a copper in Leeds who didn’t know Jimmy Savile was a pervert.”
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/main-topics/general-news/there-wasn-t-a-copper-in-leeds-who-didn-t-know-savile-was-a-pervert-1-6154492
One of them is reported as explaining why he turned his back when he caught Jimmy Savile trying to seduce an underage girl in his car in 1965. He claimed that he was warned that he’d got friends in high places. “If you know what’s good for you, you’ll leave it there.”
What a shame that among all those jobsworths in the police who “knew” back in the 1960s, not a single one of them was man enough to be that lone voice who would speak out for their principles and say what they thought about what was going on.
17/10/2013 at 14:48
Bremen
That said, this scouts metal detecting session does come across well to the public at large and was done responsibly so hats off to the Scouts for that.
17/10/2013 at 14:56
heritageaction
done responsibly
Have you read EH’s guidelines on how metal detecting surveys should be conducted so as to maximise the benefit for the community?!!! Please do.
17/10/2013 at 15:00
Paul Barford
Responsibly? Can you explain the markings on the bags here (photo 15) and tell us what you see here as responsible metal detecting? Thanks
http://paul-barford.blogspot.com/2013/10/was-done-responsibly-so-hats-off-to.html
17/10/2013 at 15:11
Kerry Andrews
Paul B, are you SERIOUSLY suggesting a link between Scouts metal detecting and the Jimmy Saville child sex abuse scandal? No one is making any allegation of any improper conduct at the event in question so you should remove your unfounded and inappropriate comments.
17/10/2013 at 15:28
heritageaction
It’s crystal clear what he was saying. Why pretend otherwise?
Anyway, we’ve had a very long email from someone trying to justify this unjustifiable event. It’s tiresome, so here’s all the reply they deserve:
“Archaeology is a fantastic way for children to learn about our history”
Exactly. But please don’t get children interested in metal detecting. It is not archaeology and is illegal in most places for perfectly good reasons.
The event was a huge mistake and blaming us doesn’t make it not so. If CBA or EH say we are wrong so be it. But you – no.
17/10/2013 at 15:50
74panhead
I wonder what Baden Powell would have made of all of this?
17/10/2013 at 17:13
melby
Child protection issues aside, it is the publics perception that concerns me. If archaeologists are seen as not caring then why should the man in the street? When you see scouts having a go. The message is “it is fun interesting and harmless”
18/10/2013 at 08:42
heritageaction
We are still getting self-justificatory messages but as explained we will not provide a platform for unregulated artefact hunting. The bottom line is this:
Our “narrow minded” agenda as it has been called (that is shared by virtually every archaeologist – ask them!) is to see artefact hunting properly regulated such that it is conducted in a way that benefits the public interest. Until the activity IS fit for purpose we don’t care how well or otherwise the rally was run, encouraging children to take it up was frankly unconscionable. As for sending them home with a Minelab goody bag, that moves it from unconscionable to unbelievable.
18/10/2013 at 09:01
Paul Barford
from Minelab website: “Hopefully their experience during the day will lead some of them to take up the hobby in its own right” – http://www.minelab.com/consumer/knowledge-base/news?article=195639
18/10/2013 at 09:17
flynn
Time to regulate and regulate fully. Is it right that minelab. Should market to children? This was an exercise i. Promoting theft and legally. Are minelab now targeting scout groups to create early adopters for the future?
18/10/2013 at 09:41
SDG Member
Is field walking “regulated”….??? Or is the retrieval of flints and pot fragments from this type of activity considered to be just as serious a crime to archeaology..?
18/10/2013 at 10:06
Jan Thomas
As someone that has taken part in field walking can I mention that it involves surface artefacts, is largely carried out by members of local archaeology clubs as part of painstaking surveys, often involves noting positions not collecting and the results are usually fully and accurately written up and reported. Please don’t compare us with metal detectorists.
18/10/2013 at 10:15
Paul Barford
close it, it’s going off track.
18/10/2013 at 10:20
heritageaction
Indeed. When the only remaining defence against encouraging children to take up metal detecting is that field walking is just as bad there’s nothing more to be said,